Pastor Jeff Schreve: Good morning, and welcome to Real Truth for today. I have a question for you. What do you do when you get devastating news? You know, life really does turn on a dime. You get a phone call, and it. It's the highway patrol or somebody, that works in law enforcement, and they say, we have terrible news. Your loved one was involved in a. In a terrible car accident, and they are deceased. you get a doctor's report, and it comes back, you have cancer, and it's stage four. You sit down with your spouse, thinking things are a little rocky, but not too bad. And then the spouse says, I've met somebody else. I want out. You go to work, and your boss calls you into his office and says, we're downsizing, and here's your pink slip. Hey, what do you do when life caves in on you? That's our topic for. And we have everyone's favorite guest on this morning, my wife Debbie. And, Debbie, welcome to the program.
Debbie Schreve: Thank you, Jeff.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: the fans have been clamoring for Debbie.
Debbie Schreve: Oh, I'm sure.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I've been clamoring for Debbie.
Debbie Schreve: That's probably a little more accurate.
Caroline: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. And so, I know you just taught on this last week about praying through heartache.
Caroline: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I want to use Psalm 13 as kind of our, launching point. The psalm of David. He says, how long, O Lord, will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart all the day? How long will my enemy be exalted over me? Consider and answer me, O Lord, my God. Enlighten my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death. Lest my enemies say, I have overcome him. Lest my adversaries rejoice when I am shaken. But I have trusted in your loving kindness. My heart shall rejoice in your salvation. I will sing to the Lord because he has dealt Bountifully with me, praying through heartache. Heartache is something all of us know about.
Debbie Schreve: Oh, absolutely. And I think one of the things, the misconceptions of Christianity is that so many people feel like once I have accepted Christ into my life, everything's just going to be peachy and rosy. And God never promises it's the end
Pastor Jeff Schreve: of all my troubles.
Debbie Schreve: Right? And that's just not the way it is. There's a quote by J.J. packer that he said.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: JI.
Debbie Schreve: JI Packer, sorry. That he said a certain type of ministry of the gospel is cruel. And that's that idea that man, once you are, believer and are walking in fellowship with the Lord, everything in your life is just going to go fabulously.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, Rocky Balboa told us the world ain't all sunshine and rainbows, for sure.
Debbie Schreve: And I think, you know, intellectually, you know that. So, like, you see other people having difficulties in their lives, and you think, yeah, you know, life under the sun. But then when it comes to difficulties coming into your own life, you can be, well, hold on. Wait a minute. This shouldn't be happening to me. You know, yes, it happens to other people, but, you know, I should be the exception to this rule, and it shouldn't be happening to me. I shouldn't be having difficulties.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: you know, just the other day was the anniversary of my dad's death. He's been gone 15 years.
Debbie Schreve: Yes, 15 years.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And so I called my mom, and she didn't realize that I was calling her at lunch because of that. And then she called me right back after we talked for a while, and she said, oh, today's a special day because, you know, it's the anniversary of your dad's death. And I said, I know. That's why I was calling you at this strange hour, for me to call you. Oh, okay. But I remember my dad. this was years and years ago. He was having back pain, and he got up from his chair and it drove him to his knees, and he was. Remember how my dad was. He was so angry. Why is this happening to me? And, I was in college, and I just said, well, why not you? I mean, it happens to a lot of people. Why should you be any different? but exactly what you said. people think, well, yeah, bad things happen, but I don't want them to happen to me. You know, I can read about stuff in the paper. This. This girl was walking down the street, and someone threw acid in her face. And, oh, how horrible. But then you think, well, what if you were that girl, I mean, she was one that said just the day before, oh, this would be terrible if that happened. And then it happens to her. Right?
Debbie Schreve: And I think, you know, our media and our culture just promotes the fact that life should be grand, that we shouldn't have any troubles, you know? but I think as we get older and as we mature, we come to realize that, hey, like, life can be really hard, you know, and things aren't necessarily fair all the time, and that we aren't that special to be above having any problems. And so life can hit us kind of hard with that, especially when we have tragedies that occur in our lives and that just really pull the rug out from underneath us. Like, we just didn't see it coming, and it just shakes us to our very, very core. But fortunately, you know, Scripture doesn't leave us hanging. Scripture leaves us, knowing that we win in the end. You know, there is a good finish line. but so many of us, don't really know what to do in the midst of all of that heartache. Like, what do we do with it? We know if we're believers and we've been in church anytime at all, we know that we have the freedom to bring that hurt, that disappointment, that discouragement, to bring that to the Lord. But we often don't necessarily know how to do that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I was thinking as you were talking about the movie Courageous, the Kendrick brothers, and, I think it was. I always get them confused. Alex or Stephen, who plays the one. One is behind the camera, and one is in front of the camera.
Debbie Schreve: I think Alex is. Is in front of the camera.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so Alex, in Courageous, you know, it's all about being a dad and stepping up. But in that movie, he loses his little girl. And you. You know, as. I can't watch stuff like that without breaking down, because I think of my girls, my grandkids, and that would. I think that would be the hardest of all the blows. Losing a child would probably be the
Debbie Schreve: hardest, yes, because it's so out of the natural order of things.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well. And you just feel. Especially as a dad, you feel like my job was to protect my little girl, my little boy, and I wasn't able to do that. so I remember he says something in the movie. He's talking to his pastor, and he's talking about how I'm having such a hard time with this. You know, the weeks m and months have passed. And, the guy says, well, anger is a natural response. And Alex said this, I don't want to be angry.
Caroline: Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: because you can get angry and bitter and hate the world and mad at God and you know, I'm not going to serve you anymore. You did this to me. And you can't do that because that is a dead end road. What, are you going to bite the hand that feeds you? You're going to scream, at the God who loves you, who wants to work this together for good? It won't work together for good if you choose that route.
Debbie Schreve: Well, I was thinking when you were just saying that about, you know, you'd never get over the loss of a child. And I remembered Vince is very recently your mom, who's 97, soon to be 98. She said that that was one of her big concerns now at this point in her life is that she was going to outlive one of her kids, you know, and she just, she, she can't believe that she's still here 15 years after your dad has been gone. she just never, ever dreamt that she would be that long without him on this earth anyway. But I thought, man, I can see where would that would be a concern. But you know, Jeff, when we talk about suffering, that's a major theme all throughout the Bible. I mean, it starts in Genesis and it goes all the way through. And we were talking about that in our study and we just kind of touched on the fact that, you know, Genesis is where evil and death and suffering came into the world. Exodus, we see the Israelites being oppressed and suffering dramatically, then wandering through the wilderness. Then we get to Psalms and we just see over and over again such a theme of suffering and lament and frustration, calling out to God, but then always going back to faith and trust in him. And then the three books in the Bible that just suffering is the main theme. Job, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, then in the NewSong Testament with Hebrews and first Peter helping Christians know how to deal with suffering and how to walk through it. So the Bible is just full of examples of that, you know, and stories that didn't necessarily always turn out grand.
Caroline: Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I am thinking of the verse in Hebrews 5, 8, says, although he was his son, he learned obedience from the things which he suffered. Jesus was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. he knew what it was like to be hurt. I mean, we sometimes gloss over the fact that Judas was one that he chose. He, he poured his life into him and that guy betrayed him. Peter was his number one disciple. He denied three times that he even knew him. And, you know, I still, I always talk about this when the Bible says in Luke, when Peter denied him that third time, the Lord turned and looked at Peter. I remember asking your dad, Debbie's dad was a pastor for what, 50 plus years? And I said, I said, gerald, what do you think that look was? And he said, it was a look of wounded love. And it wasn't a look of I told you so. It wasn't a look of, I can't believe you did that. I'm so disgusted with you. It was a look of wounded love. I think that hits the nail on the head. But that hurt. Jesus told him he was going to do it. It's one thing for Judas to betray him. that was still a wound, he said, and he betrays him with a kiss. Judas, you betray the Son of man with a kiss? Ah, it's a kiss from hell. But to have Peter, his right hand man, so to speak, deny that he even knew him, that was a whole other level of hurt.
Debbie Schreve: Right? Well, you know, suffering has a way of just shaping us and, refines us, it purifies us, it matures us. It has a lot of good qualities to it. And if you've ever been through a season of horrible suffering and disappointment, disillusionment, hurt, whatever it may be, when you stick it out, you stay close to the Lord, even in your frustrations and your disappointments, and you walk with him and you draw near to him at the end of it, when it's all said and done, when you look back, you think, man, I wouldn't necessarily want to go through that again, but I wouldn't trade it for anything because of the intimacy that I had with the Lord, how he showed himself so true and so steadfast and so faithful in my life. And the ways in which I, leaned into him and drew on his strength in a way that I never probably would have had I not have been on this path and on this journey. And you know, there was another great quote by Packer that we talked about that he, he goes on to say, how does God in His grace mature us? Not by shielding us from the assaults by the world, the flesh and the devil, nor by protecting us from burdensome and frustrating circumstances, but rather by exposing us to all those things so as to overwhelm us with a sense of our own inadequacy and to drive us to cling to him more closely. The reason why the Bible spends so much of its time reiterating that God is a strong rock, a firm defense, and a sure refuge and help for the weak is to bring home to us the fact that we are weak and we have to learn to wait on the Lord. And that is just so true.
Caroline: Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I use this illustration a lot. It's dated now, but, that song when I was a kid, Debbie, you'll remember it. I beg your pardon. I never Dolly sang that.
Debbie Schreve: Or was it Loretta Linne or Loretta Linne?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I think it's old. It's from the 70s. I beg your pardon. I never prom a rose garden. you know, I think God says that to us when we get mad at God. Why? Why is this happening to me? He said, well, I never told you. Jesus said in Jon 16, in the world you have tribulation, but be of good courage. I have overcome the world. And so we are going to have trouble in this life. You know, somebody said, Pastor, do you think we go. We go through the tribulation? I said, of course I'm going through some tribulation right now. We don't go through the great tribulation, but we are going to go through tribulation because that is part of the deal. That is the human experience.
Debbie Schreve: Linne Anderson, that's who sang.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, that's who you were looking up?
Debbie Schreve: Yeah, Linne Anderson. Because that was going to really bother me.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I don't even know who Linne Anderson is.
Debbie Schreve: She's saying, I beg your pardon. That's who she is.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: She must have been a one hit wonder.
Debbie Schreve: No, I don't think she was.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, okay. Well, you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here, along with my beautiful wife, Debbie. If you've never seen Debbie go to
Debbie Schreve: YouTube, let's not do this.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Let's just. I really married over my head.
Debbie Schreve: Let's close this.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: She went dumpster diving, but I married over my head. So anyway, we're talking about praying through heartache. How do you deal with it? And how do you pray when the bottom just drops out in life? We'll be right back after the break. Don't go away.
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: This is real truth for today. Podcasts of the program are available on the podcast page@afr.net now back to Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program, Pastor Jeff here along with my wife Debbie. We're talking about praying through heartache. And before, before we, jump back into the conversation, I want to let you know that, everyone's favorite American Family association president Tim Wildmon is going to be here next Wednesday, August 19th at First Baptist Texarkana. He's going to be, sharing, in our Wednesday night service, talking about, how our faith is to impact the culture like salt and light. And then, he and I on Thursday are going to do a radio program together and then go play golf. Tim likes to play golf. I like to play golf. And we have a great course here at Texarkana Country Club. So, Tim, unbeknownst to me, Debbie told me this, but Tim did a little radio spot and this is how it goes.
Tim Wildmon: Hello, I'm Tim Wildmon, president of American Family association and American Family Radio. Hey. Pastor Jeff Sreb in Texarkana. He owes me, some money so I'm driving over there to get it. And while I'm over there, I'm going to be speaking at the First Baptist Church, Texarkana, Texas. Wednesday, August 19th at 6:00pm That's Wednesday, August 19th at 6pm at the 1st Baptist Church, Texarkana, Texas. And I look forward to getting my money and to seeing you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So Tim and Allison are coming, coming that Wednesday afternoon and we're gonna have a good time with him. But you can always count on Tim to say something that's humorous.
Debbie Schreve: Yes, definitely.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So, anyway, put that on your calendar. If you live anywhere close by, join us on that Wednesday night. we have dinner on Wednesday night, starts at 4:45. we just remodeled our kitchen and our eating area. We call it the clc. The Christian Life Center. Used to be a gym. It was a gym way back when. It was built in 1975. It's totally remodeled now. It looks gorgeous. Wouldn't you say, Debbie?
Debbie Schreve: Oh, beautiful.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Debbie Schreve: You would never ever know it had Been a gym, yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And so, anyway, we meet in there for dinner and then go, into the atrium, which is just, I don't know, 50 yards away, for the service. Love for you to be a part of that. Okay. So, Debbie, I was looking at Psalm 13, the Psalm of David. He asks five questions. He is hurting, and he asks five questions. How long, O Lord? Question mark. Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart all the day? Question, how long will my enemy be exalted over me? Now, last question. So here is what I see in this. one of the most painful things. As he's praying, he's saying, how long will you hide your face from me? God seems a million miles away. And. And oftentimes when we're going through trouble, it seems like our prayers aren't getting through. And God, it's just a dark. It's what they call a dark night of the soul.
Debbie Schreve: Well, and I think it's in those times, in that suffering that we have a choice. We can turn to the Lord or we can turn away from Him. And so often it's in those times when we least feel like praying that it's the most important for us to pray. and I think we've all experienced that at some time or another, like, we just don't want to pray at all. We're just frustrated, we're hurt, we're disillusioned or whatever it is. But it's that it's at those times that we have to really pour out our hearts to the Lord. And I, can remember different times where I have told people, you know, I know that at this point in your life, you may not feel like praying, but I'm praying for you. I'm going to be your Eryn and your her, and hold your arms up and pray for you. And then we have the Holy Spirit that intercedes for us in those moments as well. So we're still not left stranded, you know, but, it can be very, very difficult. And we can feel like God is just a million miles away. Like, if you were here and you. You obviously are all powerful, you could prevent this, yet you chose not to. I don't get it. I don't understand why you have allowed this.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, the famous passage in Second Corinthians where Paul has his thorn in the flesh and talks to the Lord. He doesn't understand this. He said, you know, concerning this, I prayed Three times that it might be removed from me and might depart from me. And the Lord didn't answer his prayer. Now, as one man said, you know, Paul knew how to pray. He wasn't saying, now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my thorn to keep. He was saying, he was really praying, and God just said, no, my grace is sufficient for you. But God didn't tell him no on the first prayer. He didn't tell him no on the second prayer. It was on the third. I prayed three times. No answer until the third time. And then God said, my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is perfected in weakness. And, Debbie, I think that's something we forget that, one of our greatest. I've said this many times, and it's easier to say than to do. But our greatest testimony comes through difficulty. It's when, everything is falling apart and we're still trusting the Lord and we're still praising the Lord. That gets people's attention, right?
Debbie Schreve: And I think, you know, we just, when we're in suffering, we just want out of it, right? I mean, we're not wanting to just stay in it and be in it and be in it and be in it and be in it. We want out. And, you know, that's why we can get so discouraged and disillusioned. And, you know, David's like that. He's like, he. This isn't like a five minute discouragement, you know, it isn't. We talked about, like, okay, you can have a. You can have a season of suffering, or you can have a long Alaskan winter season of suffering. I mean, you know, because there's all different levels of suffering that people go through. And in the midst of that, if we aren't careful, we can feel like God has forgotten us. And David's pretty raw and honest, you know, as he pours out his heart to the Lord, like, hey, have you forgotten me? Here I am. You know, McFly, here I am. And, it can be very, very difficult. And, you know, that he probably had feelings of rejection and, you know, just the emotions that we have because he was a real person. You know, sometimes we look at these biblical people and we think, okay, yeah,
Pastor Jeff Schreve: but, you know, well, you think about David. So he's. He is on the run from King Saul for years. He's living in a cave. he says, there's not a step between me and death. And so it's not like, you know, life is bad. I lost my job, and you know, now we're having to really tighten the belt, financial belt. It's not like that. Although that's a real deal. And that's, that's a painful thing. This is losing my life and the king is trying to kill me and, I have to run and hide. And so I think in those times I preached last night on Second Peter chapter one, and God has given us his precious and magnificent promises. You really have to cling to his promises. And when life really falls apart, you have to remember Hebrews 13:5, I will never leave you, nor will I ever forsake you, because it can feel. We don't walk by feelings, we walk by faith. But it can feel like God has deserted us, right?
Debbie Schreve: It absolutely can. And you know, our culture tells us that when we're suffering, it's our fault. And sometimes we do bring suffering on ourselves. We make decisions that are outside God's will for our life, whatever. But there are a lot of times that suffering comes in and it's God's classroom. It's not that we've done something wrong, it's not a punishment for us. It's just, you know, we're in God's classroom. And you know, one of the things that we talked about a lot was, I read this in a book and it was, it talked about, you know, these prayers of lament, which is one of, you know, Psalm 13 is one of those prayers of lament in that we complain to God in our prayers of lament, but we don't complain about God, we complain to him. And you know, I think, you know, we've, we've all seen bumper stickers, T shirts or whatever where Jesus is my homie, you know, and it's like there's a certain element of respect and honor that must always be present when we are in the presence of the Lord. So yes, we can complain and we can bring our hurts and our complaints to him, but it's always under the umbrella of reverence. We're not disrespectful about that. And you know, I just think about growing up even if I was angry as all get outs at my parents, boy, I better watch how I spoke to them in that anger because they could make my life miserable. Right? And so there was just a certain element of, yeah, I can come to my parents with anything, but it better be in a respectful tone or it's not going to be received.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, yeah, I, you know, as you pray, we can be very honest with God. So Hebrews 4:16, let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. That word confidence means the freedom to speak. You know, you've seen in, military shows where, some subordinate will ask his commanding officer, freedom to speak, sir. And then, you know, that guy gets, okay, you got the green light. You can talk to me. Well, we have that freedom to speak to the Lord, but we always remember who he is. I mean, this isn't a shoeshine boy that miscounted some change. You know, this isn't somebody we order around. This is, you know, as Abraham, said to the Lord, I venture to speak to you. Genesis 18. Although I am but dust and ashes, he recognized who he was and who he's talking to. And we can talk very freely to the Lord, always with that fear, always with that reverence.
Debbie Schreve: Well, and I think too, you know, if we've had a time where we have stepped out of line, so to speak, and brought those things to the Lord in disrespect, we need to confess that we need to seek forgiveness for that. We need to ask the Holy Spirit to convict us of that so that we don't do that again. You know, the Lord promises that when we repent of our sins, he forgives us. And he puts those in the depths of the sea not to remember them as far as the east is from the west. So there's always grace when we own it and bring it to him in repentance. And so, you know, there's. There's. If we're. If we're being very honest, we've probably all done that at one time or another just out of frustration and be like, oh, that wasn't good, you know, but it goes back to the fact that we. We complain to him, we don't complain about Him. And I. I go back to that verse in Jon where it's like, hey, if I don't come to you, where am I going to go? You know, that was Jon six. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Jon six says, you do not want to leave, too, do you? And Peter said, lord, where are we to go? You have words of eternal life, right?
Debbie Schreve: So when you're in the. In the valley of suffering, it's like, okay, where are you going to go? Where are you going to go? Because you can try a lot of other avenues, but God has placed within each of us this vacuum that only he can fill and satisfy. And so he's put eternity in our hearts. That's he they talk about that in Ecclesiastes. And it's like, that's where we need to turn in our suffering, is we need. To him, he's going to guide us. If it's a physical suffering, he can. To the right doctor, he can guide us to the right, treatment plan and those kind of things. But at the end of the day, he's still the one doing the healing and taking care of things. He's doing.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you know, when you get. We know how it's devastating, when you get bitter at another person, when you're bitter at God. And really, if you boil it down, all, all bitterness makes its way back up to God. Because, you know, somebody hurts you. bitterness comes when someone hurts you. And you don't process that hurt. You get angry. You don't process the anger, and then you get resentful and bitter. Well, this person. And I get it. I was speaking to some ladies just this week, and probably 95% of them, have been sexually abused by an uncle, a father, a brother, whatever it is. And, those are deep scars. But, if you don't process it correctly, you can get bitter at that person. Then you get bitter at God. Because you say, as you mentioned earlier, Debbie, well, God, you could have prevented this, but you didn't. Now I'm mad at you. Why didn't you do that? Well, we don't understand why God didn't do. You know, sometimes he steps in, sometimes he doesn't. But we know that he works all things together for good to those who love him, to those who are called according to his purpose. So we have to just yield and say, all right, Lord, you know more than I do. I'm just going to trust you.
Debbie Schreve: Well, you know that as we talked about that in our study last week, it led to the idea of unanswered prayer. How many of us think, okay, God has not answered that prayer. I prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed, and God did not answer that prayer. And as we talked through it all, it's like, you know, honestly, there is not a thing as unanswered prayer. Because, he always answers, the answer may not be what you want it to be, because the answer may be no, or it may be not now, later, not now. and so, you know, we talked about that because when you are in the valley and you're feeling like God is not answering you, that can cause more frustration and more discouragement. But to always go back to. And we've talked about this a lot on the radio, Jeff, that God is sovereign, he loves me, and he's a good God, right? And so we talked about, like, think back in your own life about something you prayed for and prayed for and prayed for, and you felt like God. God didn't answer it. And down the road, you realized he did answer it. He answered it with a no. And, boy, am I glad he did. Am I so thankful he answered that with a no, you know, because he is sovereign and he sees the beginning to the end. We don't see that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well, I was just thinking as you were talking about Moses, when Moses was, told by the Lord, you're not going in the promised land because I told you to speak to the rock. And you. You hit the rock and you fail to, present me as holy before the people. And, Moses is saying to the people, I pleaded with the Lord at that time, saying, o Lord God, you have begun to show your servant, your greatness and strong hand for what God is there in heaven and on earth who can do such works and mighty acts as yours. Let me, I pray, cross over and see the fair land that is beyond the Jordan, that good hill country in Lebanon. But the Lord was angry with me on your account, and he would not listen to me. And the Lord said to me, enough. Speak to me no more of this matter. So, you know, God doesn't take that, like little kids whining to their parents about, oh, I want some candy at the grocery store. Get me some candy and candy. God's just like, don't ask me about that anymore. I've told you, no, it ain't gonna happen. And so Moses was like, oh, okay, okay. Well, we're talking about praying through heartache. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here, along with my wife Debbie. And you're listening to Real Truth for today on American Family Radio. When we come back from the break, we'll be taking your calls. 888-589-8840. That's 888-589-8840. If you have a question, a comment, maybe a brief testimony of how, you were able to trust the Lord, through a difficult time and how God saw you through, we would love to hear it. So give us a call, and let's talk.
: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Shriek.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. I want to let you know about two trips coming up that I'm going to be Leading the first one is to Washington D.C. i'm teaming up with Dr. Gary Frazier, and, we are going to Washington D.C. october 11th. That's a Sunday, through the 16th. And we're going to have a great time in D.C. we leave, Sunday evening. The trip really doesn't start till Monday morning. But, anyway, if you would like to find out more about that, you can go to our website, fbctexarkanada.org that stands for first baptist church, fbctexarkaNada.org and, get all the details. October 11th, 16th. And then in 2027, April 2nd through the 11th, Lord willing, and things, settled down in the Middle east, we will be going to Israel. We'd love for you to join us, in Israel. I'll be leading that trip along with Dr. Krish Schroeder, and we're going to have a great time. You can also go to fromisheart.org or fbctexercanada.org to find out all the particulars on both those trips. Well, Debbie, you had something to say as we finish up before we go to the phone lines and, go ahead and let her rip.
Debbie Schreve: Yes, we, kind of closed out our session this last week as we talked through this topic with a quote by Tim Keller that said God will either give. Give us what we ask or give us what we would have asked for if we knew everything that he knew. And the bottom line is that God can be trusted. You know, he. He can. And he might answer our prayers immediately, but because of his sovereignty and because of his love for us, he's not going to, he's not going to always answer us the way that we think we want him to because he knows all things and we don't know it. And we kind of. We kind of closed out talking fact that, you know, everyone in the room was at a different level of suffering. You know, some people had just gone through a time of suffering and they had come through on the other side. Some had not experienced a horrible suffering as of yet in their lives. Others were in the midst of it right then, you know, that day. And, that in the middle of suffering, things can just seem so dark and so dreary and so hopeless. But to always remember that God does His very best work in the dark.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, I heard that, when we had. When, we were transitioning from Champion Forrest to First Baptist, we went to a church service at another church just to get the experience of going to another church because we had been at Champion Forrest for so long. And that guy said that. I've never forgotten that. He said, you think of the tomb of Jesus and what God did in the tomb of Jesus when you think everything is finito. it's done, it's. The fat lady has sung. God is the God of hope. And in that dark tomb, God did his best work. So God does his greatest work in the darkest of places. So if you are in a dark place right now and you don't see any light, as David said in Psalm 13, NewSong Living Translation, Give me light in the darkness, lest I die. That's how, desperate he was. But you keep trusting him. But I will trust in the Lord's loving kindness, David said, and keep your eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith. He is the God of hope. Romans 15:13 I think is a verse every Christian should memorize. Now, may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. And with God all things are possible. So keep trusting him. Well, we're going to the phone lines 888-589-8840. If you have a question, comment, brief testimony, we would love to hear from you. And we have Mike on the line from Mississippi. Mike, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: thank you, man. I watch, I listen to you every morning and I watch you in the evening on Roku.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, thanks, brother.
Caroline: I'm 80 years old. Five, and a half years ago, my 47 year old son who was in law enforcement 26 years passed away. And then two and a half years ago, my wife of 55 years passed away. And I want you to know that's a, that's a, that's a knock upside the head in many ways. But the Lord has met every need that I and my daughter have had. And it's amazing how he uses these difficulties and challenges in our life to bring us closer to him. My wife and son both knew Christ as a savior. In fact, two months before my son passed away, he led his brother in law to the Lord. And it's amazing how the Lord takes care of us even when we don't really understand what all is going on. And then all you got to do is look around and many other people go through just exactly what I've been through. But God is good. You meet every need you have if you obey him faithfully.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. Well, thanks for that testimony, Mike. And I'm sorry for those losses. Those are significant and painful. But, yeah, we keep trusting the Lord, and so, I appreciate you calling in. You know, as you were talking, I was thinking about Revelation 21, where it talks about the eternal state. And it says, and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall no longer be any death. There shall no longer be any mourning or crying or pain. The first things have passed away. And so that's what we have to look forward to. And so even though we may be hurting now, as, Ken Barber said, when his wife. Now, that was his new wife.
Debbie Schreve: I thought the first wife was named.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Maybe he only married Anne's. But he said at her funeral, he said, this isn't goodbye. It's just, see you soon. And she went. She went ahead of him to heaven. So I appreciate that, Mike. God bless you, brother. We have our friend Lee on the line from Texas. Lee, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: thank you, Pastor Jeff. I've been praying for a miracle for a long time. it's. It's. It's, an affliction, I guess you'd call it. And, the Lord answered me, and he. I didn't hear it, but he answered me in my soul, audibly. He said, no, never. And I, take that as a miracle right there. You know, I still put. Now, I still pray for it. but I know he told me. He told me, no, never. And, so I take that as a, you know, part of the miracle right there.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, in no way. I, think that's a great way to look at it, Lee. But just know this. God is a good God. He wants what's best for us. If. If we ask him for something, as Jesus said, what man among you, if his son shall ask him for a loaf of bread, he doesn't give him a stone. If he asks for a fish, he doesn't give him a snake. if you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father in heaven give what is good to those who ask him? So when we ask him for something, when he says no, then he knows that that is not good for us. Psalm 84, 11. For the Lord, verse, God is the sun and shield, the Lord gives grace and glory. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly.
Debbie Schreve: Well, I just think about Joni Eareckson Tada. You know, that she prayed and prayed and prayed for God to heal her and to bring back, you know, to not be paralyzed anymore. And then she finally got to the point where I think she realized his answer was no. And her response back was, then show me how to live like this. You know, so she continued to trust. And, boy, that was not hour to hour, day to day, an easy thing to do, but she did it. And it's still not.
: Yeah.
Debbie Schreve: but it was like, okay, you're not going to heal me this side of heaven. You've kind of let me know that. So now here's my next bold request. Show me how to live. Show me how to live like this.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And God did.
Debbie Schreve: And God did.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: God bless you, brother. I appreciate you calling in Lee. Well, we have, our friend Frank on the line from Kentucky. Frank, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Good morning, brothers and sister. I have a comment. experience over the years. what I'm trying to say is when people are out, Christians are out into the world in any given moment of any supermarket or any place. I, find that Christians are not, being a witness with Jesus. And this is a real bad thing because. Because this, when you don't, he told us to go out and spread the good news. But I find that, no one never comes up to me and asks us, sir, do you know Jesus? Are you saved? No one has never. I'm sure someone's in, in a store or somewhere.
Caroline: There's.
Caroline: There's a Christian somewhere in that store. So this bypass you. They won't say anything. They scroll. It's, don't do it. So when's the last time someone's came up to you and said, do you know Jesus is your Lord and savior? No one does that. So, it's. I, I wanted to try to encourage every pastor to get the Christians go out into the world. It's more than just been saved because we're going to stand before God and give an account for that. Yeah, So I just wanted.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, that's a, that's a good word, Frank. You know, I think about in my life, I don't know about for you, Debbie, but I think, somebody's witnessed to me maybe only once or twice in my life. You know, they don't know who I am. They just sit down and they strike up a conversation and it's like, oh, you're talking to me about Jesus. You know, they're kind of around the horn, trying to figure out a way, and they're nervous as a cat. It's like, yeah, you know, I came to know Christ, and I think that's Great what you're doing. But what Frank is saying, hey, we need to be. As we talked at staff meeting yesterday, Christians are. You're on 24 7. an unsaved world is watching you. How you treat your spouse, how you treat your kids, how you handle difficult situations. That's all a witness. And we need to remember that when things make, us angry at the grocery store or this or that. one of our pastors was talking about how they messed up an order at Whataburger, and he said, I easily could have gotten a upset with them, but then I remembered, hey, I'm. I'm. I don't know if this person knows who I am, but they could. And he said as he was bringing back his order, this isn't right. He said somebody came up to him and said, hey, don't you go to First Baptist? He said, I was so glad I didn't, you know, act in anger. So God bless you, Frank. That's a great word. We have, Linda, our friend Linda on the line from Texas. Linda, welcome to the program.
Caroline: Oh, thank you. And I have to tell you very quickly, every scripture you both were sharing were like, right. I mean, not right on. They just spoke to me. But what I called for is God has shown me something in my suffering. And, you know, this has just recently been more, you're not doing something that's caused you, you know, to be in this place or suffer. I want you to feel what people are feeling. And that has really spoken to me. It's like, yeah, just, Because you're going to feel, you know. And so anyway, I just wanted to share that because it makes it different. It's like, you just try to think now, how can I share with somebody else? And it's usually with scripture, but I just had to call and share that because that's the way. And this is over the years, but just more recently, you're not going through this because something you did, but it's because of something I want you to feel for somebody else.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, that's a good point. Well, anybody that, goes through hardship and suffering, somebody that's lost a child, they're able to minister to someone else that's lost a child in a way that other people can't. Because it's like, hey, I've been there. I know what it is. Remember Dean Sieberhagen, when he was here, he said, you know, a, testimony from a Muslim who came to Christ is so much more powerful to a Muslim than somebody who's never been a Muslim that's talking to them about Jesus. Because this other person could say, hey, I used to be you, and I know exactly what that's like. So that's a good word, Linda. God bless you. I appreciate you so much. Well, we have Ray on the line from Ohio. Ray, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Hi, it's Ray.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, go ahead, Ray.
Caroline: Yes, I think I might have had a trip to heaven to see my father after he died. And I'll explain you. I'll talk to you, and you can let me know what you think.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay?
Caroline: Okay. After he died, I was sleeping. I went to bed. I had a dream. In my dream, I see my father walking. So I caught up behind him. And, we went into a house. There wasn't no pearly gates or nothing. It was just a house. And I could tell everybody there was all older. I went in, and he introduced me as his son. And I could tell they were all relatives from the way they were dressed. His parents died in the 40s when he was a teenager, so I never got to see him. I never even got to see pictures of him. But I know what they look like in my dreams, so I wondered if that was, his parents or not. But everybody in the. Was all old people.
Caroline: They were all old.
Caroline: From the clothes, I could tell they were all older and, you know. And, after his parents died, he went to the Korean War to send money back to his aunt to take care of his younger brother, two younger brothers. And, so that's. I think that when you die, it's not a bunch of pearly gates, because you go see your relatives.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Well, I appreciate the call, Ray. So we get the, We get the Gates of Pearle from the book of the Revelation, and that's. God tells us what heaven is like. He didn't give us a huge, detailed picture of heaven, but we do know that there are Gates of Pearle. There are 12 gates. And, so I think I, would just take your dream with a grain of salt. it could have been just something on your mind. And, you know, perhaps God gave you, a little inkling that, hey, your dad is with me and your relatives are with me. But, yeah, I would just hold that very loosely. and we hold firmly to the scripture. This is what the Lord says. Heaven is a place where we were with Jesus and we're with all the saints, who have gone before us. And we worship the Lord and serve the Lord forever and ever. And ever. It is, what eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has even entered into the heart of man. All that God has prepared for those who love him. Well, thanks for listening to Real Truth for today. Go out, shine for Christ. Share what great things the Lord has done for you. And God will use you as his witness. God bless.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Good morning, and welcome to Real Truth for today. I have a question for you. What do you do when you get devastating news? You know, life really does turn on a dime. You get a phone call, and it. It's the highway patrol or somebody, that works in law enforcement, and they say, we have terrible news. Your loved one was involved in a. In a terrible car accident, and they are deceased. you get a doctor's report, and it comes back, you have cancer, and it's stage four. You sit down with your spouse, thinking things are a little rocky, but not too bad. And then the spouse says, I've met somebody else. I want out. You go to work, and your boss calls you into his office and says, we're downsizing, and here's your pink slip. Hey, what do you do when life caves in on you? That's our topic for. And we have everyone's favorite guest on this morning, my wife Debbie. And, Debbie, welcome to the program.
Debbie Schreve: Thank you, Jeff.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: the fans have been clamoring for Debbie.
Debbie Schreve: Oh, I'm sure.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I've been clamoring for Debbie.
Debbie Schreve: That's probably a little more accurate.
Caroline: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes. And so, I know you just taught on this last week about praying through heartache.
Caroline: Yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I want to use Psalm 13 as kind of our, launching point. The psalm of David. He says, how long, O Lord, will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart all the day? How long will my enemy be exalted over me? Consider and answer me, O Lord, my God. Enlighten my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death. Lest my enemies say, I have overcome him. Lest my adversaries rejoice when I am shaken. But I have trusted in your loving kindness. My heart shall rejoice in your salvation. I will sing to the Lord because he has dealt Bountifully with me, praying through heartache. Heartache is something all of us know about.
Debbie Schreve: Oh, absolutely. And I think one of the things, the misconceptions of Christianity is that so many people feel like once I have accepted Christ into my life, everything's just going to be peachy and rosy. And God never promises it's the end
Pastor Jeff Schreve: of all my troubles.
Debbie Schreve: Right? And that's just not the way it is. There's a quote by J.J. packer that he said.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: JI.
Debbie Schreve: JI Packer, sorry. That he said a certain type of ministry of the gospel is cruel. And that's that idea that man, once you are, believer and are walking in fellowship with the Lord, everything in your life is just going to go fabulously.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, Rocky Balboa told us the world ain't all sunshine and rainbows, for sure.
Debbie Schreve: And I think, you know, intellectually, you know that. So, like, you see other people having difficulties in their lives, and you think, yeah, you know, life under the sun. But then when it comes to difficulties coming into your own life, you can be, well, hold on. Wait a minute. This shouldn't be happening to me. You know, yes, it happens to other people, but, you know, I should be the exception to this rule, and it shouldn't be happening to me. I shouldn't be having difficulties.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: you know, just the other day was the anniversary of my dad's death. He's been gone 15 years.
Debbie Schreve: Yes, 15 years.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And so I called my mom, and she didn't realize that I was calling her at lunch because of that. And then she called me right back after we talked for a while, and she said, oh, today's a special day because, you know, it's the anniversary of your dad's death. And I said, I know. That's why I was calling you at this strange hour, for me to call you. Oh, okay. But I remember my dad. this was years and years ago. He was having back pain, and he got up from his chair and it drove him to his knees, and he was. Remember how my dad was. He was so angry. Why is this happening to me? And, I was in college, and I just said, well, why not you? I mean, it happens to a lot of people. Why should you be any different? but exactly what you said. people think, well, yeah, bad things happen, but I don't want them to happen to me. You know, I can read about stuff in the paper. This. This girl was walking down the street, and someone threw acid in her face. And, oh, how horrible. But then you think, well, what if you were that girl, I mean, she was one that said just the day before, oh, this would be terrible if that happened. And then it happens to her. Right?
Debbie Schreve: And I think, you know, our media and our culture just promotes the fact that life should be grand, that we shouldn't have any troubles, you know? but I think as we get older and as we mature, we come to realize that, hey, like, life can be really hard, you know, and things aren't necessarily fair all the time, and that we aren't that special to be above having any problems. And so life can hit us kind of hard with that, especially when we have tragedies that occur in our lives and that just really pull the rug out from underneath us. Like, we just didn't see it coming, and it just shakes us to our very, very core. But fortunately, you know, Scripture doesn't leave us hanging. Scripture leaves us, knowing that we win in the end. You know, there is a good finish line. but so many of us, don't really know what to do in the midst of all of that heartache. Like, what do we do with it? We know if we're believers and we've been in church anytime at all, we know that we have the freedom to bring that hurt, that disappointment, that discouragement, to bring that to the Lord. But we often don't necessarily know how to do that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I was thinking as you were talking about the movie Courageous, the Kendrick brothers, and, I think it was. I always get them confused. Alex or Stephen, who plays the one. One is behind the camera, and one is in front of the camera.
Debbie Schreve: I think Alex is. Is in front of the camera.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay, so Alex, in Courageous, you know, it's all about being a dad and stepping up. But in that movie, he loses his little girl. And you. You know, as. I can't watch stuff like that without breaking down, because I think of my girls, my grandkids, and that would. I think that would be the hardest of all the blows. Losing a child would probably be the
Debbie Schreve: hardest, yes, because it's so out of the natural order of things.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well. And you just feel. Especially as a dad, you feel like my job was to protect my little girl, my little boy, and I wasn't able to do that. so I remember he says something in the movie. He's talking to his pastor, and he's talking about how I'm having such a hard time with this. You know, the weeks m and months have passed. And, the guy says, well, anger is a natural response. And Alex said this, I don't want to be angry.
Caroline: Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: because you can get angry and bitter and hate the world and mad at God and you know, I'm not going to serve you anymore. You did this to me. And you can't do that because that is a dead end road. What, are you going to bite the hand that feeds you? You're going to scream, at the God who loves you, who wants to work this together for good? It won't work together for good if you choose that route.
Debbie Schreve: Well, I was thinking when you were just saying that about, you know, you'd never get over the loss of a child. And I remembered Vince is very recently your mom, who's 97, soon to be 98. She said that that was one of her big concerns now at this point in her life is that she was going to outlive one of her kids, you know, and she just, she, she can't believe that she's still here 15 years after your dad has been gone. she just never, ever dreamt that she would be that long without him on this earth anyway. But I thought, man, I can see where would that would be a concern. But you know, Jeff, when we talk about suffering, that's a major theme all throughout the Bible. I mean, it starts in Genesis and it goes all the way through. And we were talking about that in our study and we just kind of touched on the fact that, you know, Genesis is where evil and death and suffering came into the world. Exodus, we see the Israelites being oppressed and suffering dramatically, then wandering through the wilderness. Then we get to Psalms and we just see over and over again such a theme of suffering and lament and frustration, calling out to God, but then always going back to faith and trust in him. And then the three books in the Bible that just suffering is the main theme. Job, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, then in the NewSong Testament with Hebrews and first Peter helping Christians know how to deal with suffering and how to walk through it. So the Bible is just full of examples of that, you know, and stories that didn't necessarily always turn out grand.
Caroline: Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I am thinking of the verse in Hebrews 5, 8, says, although he was his son, he learned obedience from the things which he suffered. Jesus was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. he knew what it was like to be hurt. I mean, we sometimes gloss over the fact that Judas was one that he chose. He, he poured his life into him and that guy betrayed him. Peter was his number one disciple. He denied three times that he even knew him. And, you know, I still, I always talk about this when the Bible says in Luke, when Peter denied him that third time, the Lord turned and looked at Peter. I remember asking your dad, Debbie's dad was a pastor for what, 50 plus years? And I said, I said, gerald, what do you think that look was? And he said, it was a look of wounded love. And it wasn't a look of I told you so. It wasn't a look of, I can't believe you did that. I'm so disgusted with you. It was a look of wounded love. I think that hits the nail on the head. But that hurt. Jesus told him he was going to do it. It's one thing for Judas to betray him. that was still a wound, he said, and he betrays him with a kiss. Judas, you betray the Son of man with a kiss? Ah, it's a kiss from hell. But to have Peter, his right hand man, so to speak, deny that he even knew him, that was a whole other level of hurt.
Debbie Schreve: Right? Well, you know, suffering has a way of just shaping us and, refines us, it purifies us, it matures us. It has a lot of good qualities to it. And if you've ever been through a season of horrible suffering and disappointment, disillusionment, hurt, whatever it may be, when you stick it out, you stay close to the Lord, even in your frustrations and your disappointments, and you walk with him and you draw near to him at the end of it, when it's all said and done, when you look back, you think, man, I wouldn't necessarily want to go through that again, but I wouldn't trade it for anything because of the intimacy that I had with the Lord, how he showed himself so true and so steadfast and so faithful in my life. And the ways in which I, leaned into him and drew on his strength in a way that I never probably would have had I not have been on this path and on this journey. And you know, there was another great quote by Packer that we talked about that he, he goes on to say, how does God in His grace mature us? Not by shielding us from the assaults by the world, the flesh and the devil, nor by protecting us from burdensome and frustrating circumstances, but rather by exposing us to all those things so as to overwhelm us with a sense of our own inadequacy and to drive us to cling to him more closely. The reason why the Bible spends so much of its time reiterating that God is a strong rock, a firm defense, and a sure refuge and help for the weak is to bring home to us the fact that we are weak and we have to learn to wait on the Lord. And that is just so true.
Caroline: Right.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, I use this illustration a lot. It's dated now, but, that song when I was a kid, Debbie, you'll remember it. I beg your pardon. I never Dolly sang that.
Debbie Schreve: Or was it Loretta Linne or Loretta Linne?
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I think it's old. It's from the 70s. I beg your pardon. I never prom a rose garden. you know, I think God says that to us when we get mad at God. Why? Why is this happening to me? He said, well, I never told you. Jesus said in Jon 16, in the world you have tribulation, but be of good courage. I have overcome the world. And so we are going to have trouble in this life. You know, somebody said, Pastor, do you think we go. We go through the tribulation? I said, of course I'm going through some tribulation right now. We don't go through the great tribulation, but we are going to go through tribulation because that is part of the deal. That is the human experience.
Debbie Schreve: Linne Anderson, that's who sang.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, that's who you were looking up?
Debbie Schreve: Yeah, Linne Anderson. Because that was going to really bother me.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: I don't even know who Linne Anderson is.
Debbie Schreve: She's saying, I beg your pardon. That's who she is.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: She must have been a one hit wonder.
Debbie Schreve: No, I don't think she was.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Oh, okay. Well, you're listening to Real Truth for today. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here, along with my beautiful wife, Debbie. If you've never seen Debbie go to
Debbie Schreve: YouTube, let's not do this.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Let's just. I really married over my head.
Debbie Schreve: Let's close this.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: She went dumpster diving, but I married over my head. So anyway, we're talking about praying through heartache. How do you deal with it? And how do you pray when the bottom just drops out in life? We'll be right back after the break. Don't go away.
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: This is real truth for today. Podcasts of the program are available on the podcast page@afr.net now back to Pastor Jeff Schrieve.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program, Pastor Jeff here along with my wife Debbie. We're talking about praying through heartache. And before, before we, jump back into the conversation, I want to let you know that, everyone's favorite American Family association president Tim Wildmon is going to be here next Wednesday, August 19th at First Baptist Texarkana. He's going to be, sharing, in our Wednesday night service, talking about, how our faith is to impact the culture like salt and light. And then, he and I on Thursday are going to do a radio program together and then go play golf. Tim likes to play golf. I like to play golf. And we have a great course here at Texarkana Country Club. So, Tim, unbeknownst to me, Debbie told me this, but Tim did a little radio spot and this is how it goes.
Tim Wildmon: Hello, I'm Tim Wildmon, president of American Family association and American Family Radio. Hey. Pastor Jeff Sreb in Texarkana. He owes me, some money so I'm driving over there to get it. And while I'm over there, I'm going to be speaking at the First Baptist Church, Texarkana, Texas. Wednesday, August 19th at 6:00pm That's Wednesday, August 19th at 6pm at the 1st Baptist Church, Texarkana, Texas. And I look forward to getting my money and to seeing you.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So Tim and Allison are coming, coming that Wednesday afternoon and we're gonna have a good time with him. But you can always count on Tim to say something that's humorous.
Debbie Schreve: Yes, definitely.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: So, anyway, put that on your calendar. If you live anywhere close by, join us on that Wednesday night. we have dinner on Wednesday night, starts at 4:45. we just remodeled our kitchen and our eating area. We call it the clc. The Christian Life Center. Used to be a gym. It was a gym way back when. It was built in 1975. It's totally remodeled now. It looks gorgeous. Wouldn't you say, Debbie?
Debbie Schreve: Oh, beautiful.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yes.
Debbie Schreve: You would never ever know it had Been a gym, yes.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And so, anyway, we meet in there for dinner and then go, into the atrium, which is just, I don't know, 50 yards away, for the service. Love for you to be a part of that. Okay. So, Debbie, I was looking at Psalm 13, the Psalm of David. He asks five questions. He is hurting, and he asks five questions. How long, O Lord? Question mark. Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long shall I take counsel in my soul, having sorrow in my heart all the day? Question, how long will my enemy be exalted over me? Now, last question. So here is what I see in this. one of the most painful things. As he's praying, he's saying, how long will you hide your face from me? God seems a million miles away. And. And oftentimes when we're going through trouble, it seems like our prayers aren't getting through. And God, it's just a dark. It's what they call a dark night of the soul.
Debbie Schreve: Well, and I think it's in those times, in that suffering that we have a choice. We can turn to the Lord or we can turn away from Him. And so often it's in those times when we least feel like praying that it's the most important for us to pray. and I think we've all experienced that at some time or another, like, we just don't want to pray at all. We're just frustrated, we're hurt, we're disillusioned or whatever it is. But it's that it's at those times that we have to really pour out our hearts to the Lord. And I, can remember different times where I have told people, you know, I know that at this point in your life, you may not feel like praying, but I'm praying for you. I'm going to be your Eryn and your her, and hold your arms up and pray for you. And then we have the Holy Spirit that intercedes for us in those moments as well. So we're still not left stranded, you know, but, it can be very, very difficult. And we can feel like God is just a million miles away. Like, if you were here and you. You obviously are all powerful, you could prevent this, yet you chose not to. I don't get it. I don't understand why you have allowed this.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, the famous passage in Second Corinthians where Paul has his thorn in the flesh and talks to the Lord. He doesn't understand this. He said, you know, concerning this, I prayed Three times that it might be removed from me and might depart from me. And the Lord didn't answer his prayer. Now, as one man said, you know, Paul knew how to pray. He wasn't saying, now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my thorn to keep. He was saying, he was really praying, and God just said, no, my grace is sufficient for you. But God didn't tell him no on the first prayer. He didn't tell him no on the second prayer. It was on the third. I prayed three times. No answer until the third time. And then God said, my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is perfected in weakness. And, Debbie, I think that's something we forget that, one of our greatest. I've said this many times, and it's easier to say than to do. But our greatest testimony comes through difficulty. It's when, everything is falling apart and we're still trusting the Lord and we're still praising the Lord. That gets people's attention, right?
Debbie Schreve: And I think, you know, we just, when we're in suffering, we just want out of it, right? I mean, we're not wanting to just stay in it and be in it and be in it and be in it and be in it. We want out. And, you know, that's why we can get so discouraged and disillusioned. And, you know, David's like that. He's like, he. This isn't like a five minute discouragement, you know, it isn't. We talked about, like, okay, you can have a. You can have a season of suffering, or you can have a long Alaskan winter season of suffering. I mean, you know, because there's all different levels of suffering that people go through. And in the midst of that, if we aren't careful, we can feel like God has forgotten us. And David's pretty raw and honest, you know, as he pours out his heart to the Lord, like, hey, have you forgotten me? Here I am. You know, McFly, here I am. And, it can be very, very difficult. And, you know, that he probably had feelings of rejection and, you know, just the emotions that we have because he was a real person. You know, sometimes we look at these biblical people and we think, okay, yeah,
Pastor Jeff Schreve: but, you know, well, you think about David. So he's. He is on the run from King Saul for years. He's living in a cave. he says, there's not a step between me and death. And so it's not like, you know, life is bad. I lost my job, and you know, now we're having to really tighten the belt, financial belt. It's not like that. Although that's a real deal. And that's, that's a painful thing. This is losing my life and the king is trying to kill me and, I have to run and hide. And so I think in those times I preached last night on Second Peter chapter one, and God has given us his precious and magnificent promises. You really have to cling to his promises. And when life really falls apart, you have to remember Hebrews 13:5, I will never leave you, nor will I ever forsake you, because it can feel. We don't walk by feelings, we walk by faith. But it can feel like God has deserted us, right?
Debbie Schreve: It absolutely can. And you know, our culture tells us that when we're suffering, it's our fault. And sometimes we do bring suffering on ourselves. We make decisions that are outside God's will for our life, whatever. But there are a lot of times that suffering comes in and it's God's classroom. It's not that we've done something wrong, it's not a punishment for us. It's just, you know, we're in God's classroom. And you know, one of the things that we talked about a lot was, I read this in a book and it was, it talked about, you know, these prayers of lament, which is one of, you know, Psalm 13 is one of those prayers of lament in that we complain to God in our prayers of lament, but we don't complain about God, we complain to him. And you know, I think, you know, we've, we've all seen bumper stickers, T shirts or whatever where Jesus is my homie, you know, and it's like there's a certain element of respect and honor that must always be present when we are in the presence of the Lord. So yes, we can complain and we can bring our hurts and our complaints to him, but it's always under the umbrella of reverence. We're not disrespectful about that. And you know, I just think about growing up even if I was angry as all get outs at my parents, boy, I better watch how I spoke to them in that anger because they could make my life miserable. Right? And so there was just a certain element of, yeah, I can come to my parents with anything, but it better be in a respectful tone or it's not going to be received.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, yeah, I, you know, as you pray, we can be very honest with God. So Hebrews 4:16, let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. That word confidence means the freedom to speak. You know, you've seen in, military shows where, some subordinate will ask his commanding officer, freedom to speak, sir. And then, you know, that guy gets, okay, you got the green light. You can talk to me. Well, we have that freedom to speak to the Lord, but we always remember who he is. I mean, this isn't a shoeshine boy that miscounted some change. You know, this isn't somebody we order around. This is, you know, as Abraham, said to the Lord, I venture to speak to you. Genesis 18. Although I am but dust and ashes, he recognized who he was and who he's talking to. And we can talk very freely to the Lord, always with that fear, always with that reverence.
Debbie Schreve: Well, and I think too, you know, if we've had a time where we have stepped out of line, so to speak, and brought those things to the Lord in disrespect, we need to confess that we need to seek forgiveness for that. We need to ask the Holy Spirit to convict us of that so that we don't do that again. You know, the Lord promises that when we repent of our sins, he forgives us. And he puts those in the depths of the sea not to remember them as far as the east is from the west. So there's always grace when we own it and bring it to him in repentance. And so, you know, there's. There's. If we're. If we're being very honest, we've probably all done that at one time or another just out of frustration and be like, oh, that wasn't good, you know, but it goes back to the fact that we. We complain to him, we don't complain about Him. And I. I go back to that verse in Jon where it's like, hey, if I don't come to you, where am I going to go? You know, that was Jon six. Yeah.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Jon six says, you do not want to leave, too, do you? And Peter said, lord, where are we to go? You have words of eternal life, right?
Debbie Schreve: So when you're in the. In the valley of suffering, it's like, okay, where are you going to go? Where are you going to go? Because you can try a lot of other avenues, but God has placed within each of us this vacuum that only he can fill and satisfy. And so he's put eternity in our hearts. That's he they talk about that in Ecclesiastes. And it's like, that's where we need to turn in our suffering, is we need. To him, he's going to guide us. If it's a physical suffering, he can. To the right doctor, he can guide us to the right, treatment plan and those kind of things. But at the end of the day, he's still the one doing the healing and taking care of things. He's doing.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, you know, when you get. We know how it's devastating, when you get bitter at another person, when you're bitter at God. And really, if you boil it down, all, all bitterness makes its way back up to God. Because, you know, somebody hurts you. bitterness comes when someone hurts you. And you don't process that hurt. You get angry. You don't process the anger, and then you get resentful and bitter. Well, this person. And I get it. I was speaking to some ladies just this week, and probably 95% of them, have been sexually abused by an uncle, a father, a brother, whatever it is. And, those are deep scars. But, if you don't process it correctly, you can get bitter at that person. Then you get bitter at God. Because you say, as you mentioned earlier, Debbie, well, God, you could have prevented this, but you didn't. Now I'm mad at you. Why didn't you do that? Well, we don't understand why God didn't do. You know, sometimes he steps in, sometimes he doesn't. But we know that he works all things together for good to those who love him, to those who are called according to his purpose. So we have to just yield and say, all right, Lord, you know more than I do. I'm just going to trust you.
Debbie Schreve: Well, you know that as we talked about that in our study last week, it led to the idea of unanswered prayer. How many of us think, okay, God has not answered that prayer. I prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed, and God did not answer that prayer. And as we talked through it all, it's like, you know, honestly, there is not a thing as unanswered prayer. Because, he always answers, the answer may not be what you want it to be, because the answer may be no, or it may be not now, later, not now. and so, you know, we talked about that because when you are in the valley and you're feeling like God is not answering you, that can cause more frustration and more discouragement. But to always go back to. And we've talked about this a lot on the radio, Jeff, that God is sovereign, he loves me, and he's a good God, right? And so we talked about, like, think back in your own life about something you prayed for and prayed for and prayed for, and you felt like God. God didn't answer it. And down the road, you realized he did answer it. He answered it with a no. And, boy, am I glad he did. Am I so thankful he answered that with a no, you know, because he is sovereign and he sees the beginning to the end. We don't see that.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, well, I was just thinking as you were talking about Moses, when Moses was, told by the Lord, you're not going in the promised land because I told you to speak to the rock. And you. You hit the rock and you fail to, present me as holy before the people. And, Moses is saying to the people, I pleaded with the Lord at that time, saying, o Lord God, you have begun to show your servant, your greatness and strong hand for what God is there in heaven and on earth who can do such works and mighty acts as yours. Let me, I pray, cross over and see the fair land that is beyond the Jordan, that good hill country in Lebanon. But the Lord was angry with me on your account, and he would not listen to me. And the Lord said to me, enough. Speak to me no more of this matter. So, you know, God doesn't take that, like little kids whining to their parents about, oh, I want some candy at the grocery store. Get me some candy and candy. God's just like, don't ask me about that anymore. I've told you, no, it ain't gonna happen. And so Moses was like, oh, okay, okay. Well, we're talking about praying through heartache. Pastor Jeff Schrieve here, along with my wife Debbie. And you're listening to Real Truth for today on American Family Radio. When we come back from the break, we'll be taking your calls. 888-589-8840. That's 888-589-8840. If you have a question, a comment, maybe a brief testimony of how, you were able to trust the Lord, through a difficult time and how God saw you through, we would love to hear it. So give us a call, and let's talk.
: If you'd like to contact Pastor Jeff, email pastor jeffromhishheart.org now back to Real Truth for today with Pastor Jeff Shriek.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Welcome back to the program. I want to let you know about two trips coming up that I'm going to be Leading the first one is to Washington D.C. i'm teaming up with Dr. Gary Frazier, and, we are going to Washington D.C. october 11th. That's a Sunday, through the 16th. And we're going to have a great time in D.C. we leave, Sunday evening. The trip really doesn't start till Monday morning. But, anyway, if you would like to find out more about that, you can go to our website, fbctexarkanada.org that stands for first baptist church, fbctexarkaNada.org and, get all the details. October 11th, 16th. And then in 2027, April 2nd through the 11th, Lord willing, and things, settled down in the Middle east, we will be going to Israel. We'd love for you to join us, in Israel. I'll be leading that trip along with Dr. Krish Schroeder, and we're going to have a great time. You can also go to fromisheart.org or fbctexercanada.org to find out all the particulars on both those trips. Well, Debbie, you had something to say as we finish up before we go to the phone lines and, go ahead and let her rip.
Debbie Schreve: Yes, we, kind of closed out our session this last week as we talked through this topic with a quote by Tim Keller that said God will either give. Give us what we ask or give us what we would have asked for if we knew everything that he knew. And the bottom line is that God can be trusted. You know, he. He can. And he might answer our prayers immediately, but because of his sovereignty and because of his love for us, he's not going to, he's not going to always answer us the way that we think we want him to because he knows all things and we don't know it. And we kind of. We kind of closed out talking fact that, you know, everyone in the room was at a different level of suffering. You know, some people had just gone through a time of suffering and they had come through on the other side. Some had not experienced a horrible suffering as of yet in their lives. Others were in the midst of it right then, you know, that day. And, that in the middle of suffering, things can just seem so dark and so dreary and so hopeless. But to always remember that God does His very best work in the dark.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: You know, I heard that, when we had. When, we were transitioning from Champion Forrest to First Baptist, we went to a church service at another church just to get the experience of going to another church because we had been at Champion Forrest for so long. And that guy said that. I've never forgotten that. He said, you think of the tomb of Jesus and what God did in the tomb of Jesus when you think everything is finito. it's done, it's. The fat lady has sung. God is the God of hope. And in that dark tomb, God did his best work. So God does his greatest work in the darkest of places. So if you are in a dark place right now and you don't see any light, as David said in Psalm 13, NewSong Living Translation, Give me light in the darkness, lest I die. That's how, desperate he was. But you keep trusting him. But I will trust in the Lord's loving kindness, David said, and keep your eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith. He is the God of hope. Romans 15:13 I think is a verse every Christian should memorize. Now, may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. And with God all things are possible. So keep trusting him. Well, we're going to the phone lines 888-589-8840. If you have a question, comment, brief testimony, we would love to hear from you. And we have Mike on the line from Mississippi. Mike, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: thank you, man. I watch, I listen to you every morning and I watch you in the evening on Roku.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, thanks, brother.
Caroline: I'm 80 years old. Five, and a half years ago, my 47 year old son who was in law enforcement 26 years passed away. And then two and a half years ago, my wife of 55 years passed away. And I want you to know that's a, that's a, that's a knock upside the head in many ways. But the Lord has met every need that I and my daughter have had. And it's amazing how he uses these difficulties and challenges in our life to bring us closer to him. My wife and son both knew Christ as a savior. In fact, two months before my son passed away, he led his brother in law to the Lord. And it's amazing how the Lord takes care of us even when we don't really understand what all is going on. And then all you got to do is look around and many other people go through just exactly what I've been through. But God is good. You meet every need you have if you obey him faithfully.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Amen to that. Well, thanks for that testimony, Mike. And I'm sorry for those losses. Those are significant and painful. But, yeah, we keep trusting the Lord, and so, I appreciate you calling in. You know, as you were talking, I was thinking about Revelation 21, where it talks about the eternal state. And it says, and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall no longer be any death. There shall no longer be any mourning or crying or pain. The first things have passed away. And so that's what we have to look forward to. And so even though we may be hurting now, as, Ken Barber said, when his wife. Now, that was his new wife.
Debbie Schreve: I thought the first wife was named.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Maybe he only married Anne's. But he said at her funeral, he said, this isn't goodbye. It's just, see you soon. And she went. She went ahead of him to heaven. So I appreciate that, Mike. God bless you, brother. We have our friend Lee on the line from Texas. Lee, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: thank you, Pastor Jeff. I've been praying for a miracle for a long time. it's. It's. It's, an affliction, I guess you'd call it. And, the Lord answered me, and he. I didn't hear it, but he answered me in my soul, audibly. He said, no, never. And I, take that as a miracle right there. You know, I still put. Now, I still pray for it. but I know he told me. He told me, no, never. And, so I take that as a, you know, part of the miracle right there.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Well, in no way. I, think that's a great way to look at it, Lee. But just know this. God is a good God. He wants what's best for us. If. If we ask him for something, as Jesus said, what man among you, if his son shall ask him for a loaf of bread, he doesn't give him a stone. If he asks for a fish, he doesn't give him a snake. if you, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your Father in heaven give what is good to those who ask him? So when we ask him for something, when he says no, then he knows that that is not good for us. Psalm 84, 11. For the Lord, verse, God is the sun and shield, the Lord gives grace and glory. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly.
Debbie Schreve: Well, I just think about Joni Eareckson Tada. You know, that she prayed and prayed and prayed for God to heal her and to bring back, you know, to not be paralyzed anymore. And then she finally got to the point where I think she realized his answer was no. And her response back was, then show me how to live like this. You know, so she continued to trust. And, boy, that was not hour to hour, day to day, an easy thing to do, but she did it. And it's still not.
: Yeah.
Debbie Schreve: but it was like, okay, you're not going to heal me this side of heaven. You've kind of let me know that. So now here's my next bold request. Show me how to live. Show me how to live like this.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: And God did.
Debbie Schreve: And God did.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: God bless you, brother. I appreciate you calling in Lee. Well, we have, our friend Frank on the line from Kentucky. Frank, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Good morning, brothers and sister. I have a comment. experience over the years. what I'm trying to say is when people are out, Christians are out into the world in any given moment of any supermarket or any place. I, find that Christians are not, being a witness with Jesus. And this is a real bad thing because. Because this, when you don't, he told us to go out and spread the good news. But I find that, no one never comes up to me and asks us, sir, do you know Jesus? Are you saved? No one has never. I'm sure someone's in, in a store or somewhere.
Caroline: There's.
Caroline: There's a Christian somewhere in that store. So this bypass you. They won't say anything. They scroll. It's, don't do it. So when's the last time someone's came up to you and said, do you know Jesus is your Lord and savior? No one does that. So, it's. I, I wanted to try to encourage every pastor to get the Christians go out into the world. It's more than just been saved because we're going to stand before God and give an account for that. Yeah, So I just wanted.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, that's a, that's a good word, Frank. You know, I think about in my life, I don't know about for you, Debbie, but I think, somebody's witnessed to me maybe only once or twice in my life. You know, they don't know who I am. They just sit down and they strike up a conversation and it's like, oh, you're talking to me about Jesus. You know, they're kind of around the horn, trying to figure out a way, and they're nervous as a cat. It's like, yeah, you know, I came to know Christ, and I think that's Great what you're doing. But what Frank is saying, hey, we need to be. As we talked at staff meeting yesterday, Christians are. You're on 24 7. an unsaved world is watching you. How you treat your spouse, how you treat your kids, how you handle difficult situations. That's all a witness. And we need to remember that when things make, us angry at the grocery store or this or that. one of our pastors was talking about how they messed up an order at Whataburger, and he said, I easily could have gotten a upset with them, but then I remembered, hey, I'm. I'm. I don't know if this person knows who I am, but they could. And he said as he was bringing back his order, this isn't right. He said somebody came up to him and said, hey, don't you go to First Baptist? He said, I was so glad I didn't, you know, act in anger. So God bless you, Frank. That's a great word. We have, Linda, our friend Linda on the line from Texas. Linda, welcome to the program.
Caroline: Oh, thank you. And I have to tell you very quickly, every scripture you both were sharing were like, right. I mean, not right on. They just spoke to me. But what I called for is God has shown me something in my suffering. And, you know, this has just recently been more, you're not doing something that's caused you, you know, to be in this place or suffer. I want you to feel what people are feeling. And that has really spoken to me. It's like, yeah, just, Because you're going to feel, you know. And so anyway, I just wanted to share that because it makes it different. It's like, you just try to think now, how can I share with somebody else? And it's usually with scripture, but I just had to call and share that because that's the way. And this is over the years, but just more recently, you're not going through this because something you did, but it's because of something I want you to feel for somebody else.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, that's a good point. Well, anybody that, goes through hardship and suffering, somebody that's lost a child, they're able to minister to someone else that's lost a child in a way that other people can't. Because it's like, hey, I've been there. I know what it is. Remember Dean Sieberhagen, when he was here, he said, you know, a, testimony from a Muslim who came to Christ is so much more powerful to a Muslim than somebody who's never been a Muslim that's talking to them about Jesus. Because this other person could say, hey, I used to be you, and I know exactly what that's like. So that's a good word, Linda. God bless you. I appreciate you so much. Well, we have Ray on the line from Ohio. Ray, welcome to Real Truth for today.
Caroline: Hi, it's Ray.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah, go ahead, Ray.
Caroline: Yes, I think I might have had a trip to heaven to see my father after he died. And I'll explain you. I'll talk to you, and you can let me know what you think.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Okay?
Caroline: Okay. After he died, I was sleeping. I went to bed. I had a dream. In my dream, I see my father walking. So I caught up behind him. And, we went into a house. There wasn't no pearly gates or nothing. It was just a house. And I could tell everybody there was all older. I went in, and he introduced me as his son. And I could tell they were all relatives from the way they were dressed. His parents died in the 40s when he was a teenager, so I never got to see him. I never even got to see pictures of him. But I know what they look like in my dreams, so I wondered if that was, his parents or not. But everybody in the. Was all old people.
Caroline: They were all old.
Caroline: From the clothes, I could tell they were all older and, you know. And, after his parents died, he went to the Korean War to send money back to his aunt to take care of his younger brother, two younger brothers. And, so that's. I think that when you die, it's not a bunch of pearly gates, because you go see your relatives.
Pastor Jeff Schreve: Yeah. Well, I appreciate the call, Ray. So we get the, We get the Gates of Pearle from the book of the Revelation, and that's. God tells us what heaven is like. He didn't give us a huge, detailed picture of heaven, but we do know that there are Gates of Pearle. There are 12 gates. And, so I think I, would just take your dream with a grain of salt. it could have been just something on your mind. And, you know, perhaps God gave you, a little inkling that, hey, your dad is with me and your relatives are with me. But, yeah, I would just hold that very loosely. and we hold firmly to the scripture. This is what the Lord says. Heaven is a place where we were with Jesus and we're with all the saints, who have gone before us. And we worship the Lord and serve the Lord forever and ever. And ever. It is, what eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor has even entered into the heart of man. All that God has prepared for those who love him. Well, thanks for listening to Real Truth for today. Go out, shine for Christ. Share what great things the Lord has done for you. And God will use you as his witness. God bless.
Psalm 13:1 “How long, O Lord? Will You forget me forever? How long will You hide Your face from me?”
In this episode of Real Truth for Today, Pastor Jeff Schreve is joined by his wife, Debbie, to discuss how to pray through heartache and suffering. They talk about what Christians should do when life suddenly caves in through devastating news, loss, illness, broken relationships, or other painful circumstances.
Using Psalm 13 as their starting point, Jeff and Debbie explain that suffering is a reality of life—even for believers—and that God does not promise Christians a trouble-free life. Instead, Scripture teaches us to bring our pain, questions, and disappointments honestly before the Lord while continuing to trust Him.
The conversation explores unanswered prayer, God's sovereignty, bitterness, God's purpose in suffering, and how difficult seasons can deepen our relationship with Him. They also discuss Paul's “thorn in the flesh,” Jesus' own experience of suffering, and the importance of holding onto God's promises when He seems distant. The program ultimately offers a message of hope: God can be trusted, He is faithful in the darkness, and He can use our suffering for His purposes.
Psalm 13:1 “How long, O Lord? Will You forget me forever? How long will You hide Your face from me?”
In this episode of Real Truth for Today, Pastor Jeff Schreve is joined by his wife, Debbie, to discuss how to pray through heartache and suffering. They talk about what Christians should do when life suddenly caves in through devastating news, loss, illness, broken relationships, or other painful circumstances.
Using Psalm 13 as their starting point, Jeff and Debbie explain that suffering is a reality of life—even for believers—and that God does not promise Christians a trouble-free life. Instead, Scripture teaches us to bring our pain, questions, and disappointments honestly before the Lord while continuing to trust Him.
The conversation explores unanswered prayer, God's sovereignty, bitterness, God's purpose in suffering, and how difficult seasons can deepen our relationship with Him. They also discuss Paul's “thorn in the flesh,” Jesus' own experience of suffering, and the importance of holding onto God's promises when He seems distant. The program ultimately offers a message of hope: God can be trusted, He is faithful in the darkness, and He can use our suffering for His purposes.
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