The Stand radio offers a Christian response to the issues of the day
>> Christopher Woodward: Watching a spouse struggle through a health.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Crisis can be hard.
>> Christopher Woodward: But what do you do when that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Struggle worsens and thoughts of losing someone begin to creep in?
>> Christopher Woodward: This weekend on the stand radio, Dr. Ray Rooney shares his story.
>> Ed Vitagliano: What I ended up doing, and I know I did this often, was just say, God, just be with us. I know you're going to be with her. Be with me and our grown children, because this is going to be hard. The Stand radio Saturdays at 4 and Sundays at 8pm Central on AFR.
Welcome to today's Issues, offering a Christian response to the issues of the day. Here's your host, Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association.
>> Tim Wildmon: hey. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Today's Wednesday, May 7, 2025. Thanks for listening to AFR. Joining me in studio today on this here show is Ed Battagliano. Good morning, Ed.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Good morning, Tim.
>> Tim Wildmon: And Christopher Woodber.
>> Christopher Woodward: Hello.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's it, people. It's just three of us.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I think we can get the job done, Tim.
>> Tim Wildmon: A third. A third.
>> Ed Vitagliano: A third. Yep.
>> Tim Wildmon: We can do this as a team.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I think we can get the job done.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Ed Vitagliano: We will deliver the news like the pony express.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's what I'm talking about. Like the pony express of yore.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes, of your. You haven't heard that word in a long time.
>> Christopher Woodward: That's up there with stowe.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Up there with snow. Yeah, okay.
>> Tim Wildmon: Stowe. And your. I have to find a way to work in yore sometime. Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Days of yore.
>> Tim Wildmon: kind of like yonder.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes. Another word that should be brought back.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yonder.
>> Ed Vitagliano: These are great American words, foundational words for our life.
>> Christopher Woodward: Journalism professor that told me she did not like the phrase old adage because it was redundant. An adage is a saying that's said over and over again. I've the only person I've ever heard.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Tell me that, those English teachers and English professors, they get pretty surly. Yeah, that's another word, surly.
>> Tim Wildmon: I used to say repetitively redundant until I figured out exactly what I was doing.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, irregardless.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah, I was going there next.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Regardless, we should always try to use.
>> Tim Wildmon: What is that? There's an expression people use to. They say, I couldn't care less.
>> Christopher Woodward: I could care less is what people say if they say it wrong. Because people go, well, you do care. If you could care less.
>> Ed Vitagliano: They say it wrongly.
>> Tim Wildmon: I could. I could, People will say, I could care less, in which they. They mean they couldn't care less. But they say I could care less. And you want to say, well, how much less can you care?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Would you share that with us?
>> Ed Vitagliano: And when you. And when you say you couldn't care less, that means you actually care. Right?
>> Tim Wildmon: Right. Because you're talking about it.
>> Christopher Woodward: Right.
>> Jeff Shreve: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: so you. Anyway.
Fred was filling in for Jenna this morning
All right, thanks for joining us on the program today. Fred was filling in for Jenna this morning, so he's a great job. He's. He's resting his golden voice, slipping on the golden honey, and tea and things to. Yeah, you know, make it.
>> Christopher Woodward: He's got a case of clearly Canadian in his office.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Clearly Canadian. What is that, whiskey?
>> Christopher Woodward: It's. It's a bubbly, water.
>> Tim Wildmon: Clearly Canadian. That's.
>> Christopher Woodward: It's still around.
>> Tim Wildmon: The real thing.
>> Christopher Woodward: It was a big thing in the 90s, but you still see it in stores. I'm joking. He, he doesn't have that in his office, as far as I'm aware, but.
India fired missiles at Pakistan early today in retaliation for massacre of Indian tourists
>> Tim Wildmon: All right, well, what's going on in the world, Chris?
>> Christopher Woodward: Well, we do need to be in prayer for peace, and stability in India and Pakistan. And we also need to be in prayer for the missionaries that many churches have in places like India. And I bring this up because on AFN Net, you can read this story. India fired missiles at Pakistan early today, and what it said was retaliation for last month's massacre of Indian tourists. Pakistan called the strikes an act of war and said more than two dozen people were killed, including children. The, strikes targeted at least nine sites where terrorist attacks against India have been planned. And, India and Pakistan are still at it today, kind of trading war of words with one another. A very volatile situation, because these sides, these two countries, which used to be one big country, do, not get along. And, oh, by the way, both of them have nuclear capabilities. So it's a big issue of concern and something maybe even the Trump administration is having to watch today.
>> Tim Wildmon: Do you understand this? Is this. Is this a. How long. How long does this go back? Do you know?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, this goes. Pakistan and India have had hot wars before. and I'm just. I'm just amazed at how. How well the religion, of peace, by that I mean Islam, how well they are. How much they're contributing to the good of humanity. Because these. This was. This was started with terrorist attacks, right?
>> Christopher Woodward: Correct.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay, so India goes, well, we got to respond. And you remember, even when the US Was in Afghanistan, the terrorists would take refuge across the border in Pakistan because Pakistan is a Muslim country. It's the reason why they split off from India is because India is mostly Hindu and Pakistan's mostly Muslim. so, this is. This kind of conflict has been going on for a long time, but we got the Houthis in Yemen, you know, you got Hamas in Gaza. Everywhere you look, the radicals in Islam are causing trouble, and people are having to retaliate in a military fashion.
>> Tim Wildmon: But these are bordering countries, and India is actually the second most populated country in the world. No, they're number one. They surpassed China.
>> Ed Vitagliano: They did. I think you're right.
>> Tim Wildmon: They surpassed China. Probably China's one child policy forever. How long that went? A couple decades. Anyway, that probably, you know, contributed to India's overtaking them in terms of population. But so. But Pakistan, of course, borders just to the north and so. But both of them have nuclear weapons. Wow. I didn't. I don't know. For some reason I didn't realize Pakistan did. but, they do. Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And, so anytime you have a. You have hostilities with two nuclear powers, and this is part of the reason why Americans in this country were nervous about us getting too involved in the Russia, Ukraine war. You know, people saying, well, we just need to, you know, supply weapons and NATO needs to get involved, but Russia is a nuclear power, so you got to be careful.
>> Tim Wildmon: Is this saying, is this Islam, versus Hindu thing?
>> Ed Vitagliano: I don't know what the genesis of this conflict is, except for the terrorism. This is what Pakistan, what India.
>> Tim Wildmon: Was claiming was most acts of terrorism done by Muslims are done in the name of, Allah, nor done in the name of advancing their religion by killing the infidel and scaring the infidel or whatever the case may be. that's. That's what most acts of Islamic terrorism involve or the motivation for it. And you do have a lot of, is. What do you call them? Fundamentalist, Islamic, people in Pakistan.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. And a lot of people, they, you know, the argument is, do these radicals, these fundamentalist Muslims, do they represent true Islam or are they an aberration? And I personally believe that these radicals represent actual Islam. but I'm not an expert, so.
>> Tim Wildmon: We should stay out of it. So that's us, right?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, we should stay out of this. And now there is another. So you have Pakistan, just like you said, to the kind of north, west, north of India, and then right to the east of Pakistan is this area. I think it's called Kashmir, and it is controlled by India, but Pakistan thinks it belongs to them. M. So that's where these Terrorist attacks happen, right, where they killed tourists and so Indian tourist, I guess, yeah. This has, two dozen civilians, mostly tourists. This is from CNN Direct. and so I'm guessing that those are Indian civilians. But it would be similar to if the drug cartels in Mexico started attacking civilian US citizens in, in America across the border. How would we respond? Well, I mean, I don't blame India for attacking these, radicals bases in Pakistan because Pakistan's clearly not doing anything to stop them. And that's what we would. We would behave the same if our civilians were attacked.
>> Christopher Woodward: Speaking of, Muslims, two countries that border Pakistan include Afghanistan and Iran, which are Muslim countries. Now, they may not be the same kind of Muslims that Pakistan, has, but if, God forbid, India were to shoot something at Pakistan and miss and hit Afghanistan or Iran, you're talking about a whole new discussion, here that we're going to have to go over. So that's why I say we do need to be in prayer about this. And I know my church, there's a whole bunch of churches that have missionaries or do mission work in places like India. So, pray for the peace of and protection of those folks over there trying to share the gospel with folks.
House Oversight Committee to hold hearing on dangers involving males and female sports
>> Tim Wildmon: Next story.
>> Christopher Woodward: In other news, later today, the, House Oversight Committee is going to be having a hearing on the issue and dangers involving males and female sports. Various, members of the House, Republican and Democrat are going to be hearing from female athletes and others on the dangers of allowing males and female sports. So today's witnesses include people like Peyton McNabb. M. she was a high school volleyball player who took a volleyball to the face. It was served by a male pretending to be a female. And, she was severely injured by that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: It was a spike rather than just wasn't a serve.
>> Christopher Woodward: It was, thank you very much. so she took a volleyball to the face, because she was on a team that was having to compete against another team with a male on that female volleyball team. She's going to be talking to lawmakers, as well as Stephanie Turner. Stephanie Turner was the lady that was on the news a few weeks ago because she is a fencer who didn't want to fence against a male identifying as a female. I talked to a lady named Macy Petty. Macy Petty is a former college volleyball player who now works for Concerned Women for America. And she's very glad to see lawmakers continue to have hearings like this.
>> Tim Wildmon: Clip 6 There's these national governing bodies, NGBs, things like USA Fencing, USA Swimming, USA Volleyball, that do a lot of the, sports governance here in the United States and have been, one of the number one organizations at fault for the lack of protections for women in sports. And Congress actually certifies these NGBs through something called the Ted Stevens Act. And so I'm grateful that they are finally adding some accountability here and asking questions to these NGBs.
>> Christopher Woodward: Now, I'm going to be monitoring this hearing, and later today, Lord willing, we'll have some audio from the witnesses and then follow up coverage for you guys tomorrow.
Democratic Party doubling down on wanting men in girls sports
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, this, this battle continues to, go on. And it's going on because even though the majority of people in this country don't like the idea of men participating in women's sports, women and girls sports, because it's not just at the collegiate level, it's also down in high school and probably even younger, even though the vast majority is in the 70 percentile. you have the Democratic Party that is doubling down on wanting men in girls sports. You have some of these, athletic organizations that continue to either drag their feet or stand up for, quote, unquote, transgender women, which means not really women. and you have officials in education that seem, you know, you have governors. The governor of Maine, she's. She's going down with the ship on this. She's going to fight the Trump administration. Remember the main m. Overfunding. Remember the Maine. So you, you have a significant percentage. I don't know what it amounts to, but, power brokers who want to stay in this fight.
>> Tim Wildmon: Why are these people staying with this?
>> Christopher Woodward: This is like, it's a losing battle.
>> Tim Wildmon: This is like two plus two equals seven. That's what they want us to believe. And they're, and they're going to. They're. That's a hill to dial for some of these people. Why are they doing it?
>> Ed Vitagliano: My expert, my belief, I can't prove this. I can't get in their heads.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: But my belief is that if, if they back off this fight, it's like admitting that the, the God of the universe who created us, created us, male and female. And they can't lose that fight. They can't lose that fight. Or they have to, they have to agree with the old model.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And, and, and now you're getting into territory where you're talking male, you know, male, female, you know, man, woman, marriage, and all those kinds of things. You cannot. Once you build this rickety bridge across this canyon, the LGBTQ thing, you can't start pulling pillars down because the whole thing can come down. And I think, I think they understand that they have got to make this fight. Otherwise they have to admit that what we used to believe is more true than what they believe now.
>> Tim Wildmon: But let me ask you one other thing about that related to that. And Chris, Chris has some stuff. So these are the same folks who tell us that we need to believe in science. When it comes to like Covid for example.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Christopher Woodward: Or climate change.
>> Tim Wildmon: Or climate change. We're science deniers.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: And then you want to say, well, what about the XX and X Y chromosome difference? That science. Right. A subtle science. For how long?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes, we've known a chromosome.
>> Tim Wildmon: So you say that to somebody who pushes this idea that men can be women if they call themselves. So, why don't they compute that one?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, because what they really mean when they say follow the science, what they really mean is follow the ideology. And ideology is not always scientific. So we. So they're telling what they really mean. I don't even know if they know this. But what they really mean is you follow the science as long as it supports our ideology.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: it doesn't support our ideology. We, we kick it to the curb.
>> Tim Wildmon: Go with ideology.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Because we go with ideology.
>> Tim Wildmon: And with. And with feelings.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And with feelings.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And with the individual being absolutely in charge of their life. No one can tell them what to do. Not even God, and in this case not even nature. If a person. That's why you get this craziness with. I don't, I'm sure this is not all across the country, but where schools will put a litter box. am I, wasn't there a school that, because this one girl considered herself to be a furry or a cat.
>> Christopher Woodward: There have been stories, even people here have shared stories about how they've heard this is occurring even in places here in Mississippi. But there have been stories, and third hand accounts of litter boxes being in schools for kids identifying as.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Whether or not that's. That may not be true. It's probably not widespread. But you are catering to the individual declaration that I am a furry, I am not a girl, even though I look like a girl or I have, the chromosomes of a girl. So the ideology is the individual is completely in charge. We've all seen on social media, these men on the street interviews on college campuses where a conservative will ask college, college, kids, you know, you have a man asking the question, is it okay if I declare myself to be a 6 foot 5 Chinese woman? What do you Say. And they'll say, well, okay, if that's what you think.
>> Tim Wildmon: Do have to pause. Yes, they do have to pause because they're going to. They want to say of course not, but then they realize if they say of course not, then they can't say, then they're agreeing with those who say a male is a male female.
>> Ed Vitagliano: They have to. They pause because they. They realize that the evidence that's being presented goes against their ideology, and they have to consult their ideology.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: To tell them what they're supposed to say.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right. Have y'all seen this ad? This TV ad for. I think it's apple with this, it's got this boy with his shirt off, flexing his. He's a teenage boy with his shirt off, flexing his muscles.
Pennsylvania State Senate approves bill to ban biological males from female sports
and his grandma is taking pictures of him with an iPhone, I think.
>> Christopher Woodward: I think it is.
>> Tim Wildmon: And then the. But the dudes, his, his head's made up to look like a girl. He's got a page cut. Is that what you call it when it comes down there?
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah, it looks like Lord from Shrek, if you've ever seen that.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And this is the ad where.
>> Tim Wildmon: You know what I'm talking about.
>> Ed Vitagliano: He wants to get rid of his grandma because there's a reflection in the mirror.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. So it's a weird. It's a. It's a weird looking dude.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: because they. And they. And you go. And first time you see that ad, you're going, are they trying to say that's a tr. That he's trying to be a trans.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: And you're going, yep, that's what they're trying to be. Because, Am I right, dude? The head looks like it's made. He wants to be a girl.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: And his body looks.
>> Ed Vitagliano: They're blurring the line.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And claiming to be gender fluid. Because that's. The ideology is you're not allowed to tell anyone what to think. even about nature.
>> Tim Wildmon: I think also that's being pushed heavily in the, fashion industry or whatever. and so you got the androgynous look.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: You know, and a lot of the clothing, ads and, you know.
>> Christopher Woodward: You know, you dealt with that when you were coming out of high school and first part of college when you had like. Ah.
>> Tim Wildmon: Not androgynous.
>> Christopher Woodward: well, no, but confronted it.
>> Tim Wildmon: I did.
>> Christopher Woodward: Who was the guy from Culture Club back in the early to mid-80s talking about boy George. George, yeah. He kind of started a movement 40 years ago on that David Bowie.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Was one of the first to do that. That Android, androgynous look.
>> Christopher Woodward: Very odd.
>> Tim Wildmon: yeah, there's that start anyway. Yeah, you're right. Those were the, first ones back in the, yeah, back in the evening.
>> Christopher Woodward: And you had like Twisted Sister. They look like they were gonna go to Drag Queen story hour.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Christopher Woodward: after performing a.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And you know, the people who said this is wrong were mocked or ignored because they would, they would say, including I'm sure AFA back in the day, we would all say this is not going to end well. And everyone would say, oh, you're, you're just a killjoy and. But look where it's taken us.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Christopher Woodward: Now I will say I'm sorry.
>> Tim Wildmon: I just wanted to reset and tell folks that you're listening to today's issues on the American Family Radio Network. Tim, Ed and Chris. Go ahead, Chris.
>> Christopher Woodward: so a number of red states have taken steps in recent years to say no more males and female sports. But now that issue is spreading to purple states, including Pennsylvania, which yesterday the Pennsylvania State Senate approved a bill to ban biological males from competing in women's and girls sports at the collegiate and K12 levels. This was a Republican led Senate. It is unlikely to get a vote in the state's Democrat controlled House of Representatives. However, five Democrats in the Pennsylvania Senate crossed party lines yesterday to join all Republicans in voting for this bill. So you might actually see some Democrats join Republicans here in the House if it actually comes up for vote.
>> Ed Vitagliano: You're a Democrat and you see the national leadership of the Democratic Party defending this insanity. Trans. Insanity. If you see them defending men in women's sports winning, there's some guy who just won a bunch of races and the, the girls who were competing against, they thought they were racing against a woman. And he won like five, five races and these girls are all going. And we didn't know that he was a guy and had those kinds of advantages. But if you're watching the Democratic national leadership defend this and you're in a state level or you're an up and comer, some of these folks, I'm guessing are going to say, I am not going to go along with defending that.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Because I'm going to lose.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right. I'm not going to lose my race over this. Over this issue. Huh?
>> Ed Vitagliano: that's what I think. And that's why I think you see.
>> Tim Wildmon: Some Democrats from, from, from conservative areas or moderate areas.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah, this is big because Pennsylvania is kind of the ground zero of the transgender movement when it Comes to sports like swimming because that's where Will Thomas.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Christopher Woodward: Wanted to compete against females, like Wriley Gaines, and he beat her many times, even though, you know, teammates of his, like Paula Scanlon were like, this isn't right that we have a dude on this team.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, you know the Olympics are coming here next year, right? Isn't that right?
>> Christopher Woodward: They're coming here?
Transgender swimmer wins five women's gold medals at Texas championship
yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: And the, President, Trump has already said, only males, biological males and females who are going to compete will be allowed in entry into our country.
>> Ed Vitagliano: This is the story I was talking about. This was on Fox News. Transgender swimmer wins five women's gold medals at championship meet in Texas.
>> Tim Wildmon: Texas.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yep. The controversy prompted backlash on social media. And what was happening was the women, they.
>> Tim Wildmon: Swimming, you say?
>> Ed Vitagliano: They said, we didn't know we were swimming against a man who claimed to be a woman.
>> Tim Wildmon: Really? Read the first paragraph.
>> Ed Vitagliano: It says a transgender swimmer won five women's races at the US Masters Swimming Spring National Championship last weekend. The swimmer, 47 year old Anna Caldas, dominated all five races the athlete competed in, taking the gold in the women's age 40 to 45 to 49 category in five races, including the 50 and 100 yard breaststroke freestyle and the 100 yard individual medley. And, and look at this guy. Look, that's.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's a dude.
>> Ed Vitagliano: That's a dude.
>> Tim Wildmon: Look at the shoulders on that man. So he's the one who won.
>> Ed Vitagliano: He's. He's the one that won.
>> Tim Wildmon: Calls himself a girl.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. And so believe.
>> Tim Wildmon: Now, maybe that wasn't a State of Texas sanctioned event, but I think that sounds like a national event.
>> Ed Vitagliano: That happened to be that. Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: That happened to be held in Texas.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Christopher Woodward: So sounds like US Masters.
>> Tim Wildmon: I don't think Texas, probably allows that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Allows that it's what? And it's clearly because of the age. It's beyond the collegiate level. But still, these women.
>> Tim Wildmon: Let me ask you this.
>> Ed Vitagliano: That they didn't know.
>> Tim Wildmon: Why do these dudes feel the need to put makeup on and grow their hair like a girl?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Because they see themselves as women.
>> Christopher Woodward: I think some of them just identify as one.
>> Tim Wildmon: Why they have to.
>> Ed Vitagliano: It is. That is actually a good question. Because if they're changing their appearance, you're saying, what, are you trying to look like a woman? Well, so you're saying a woman's different than a man.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's my point. It was a good one. We'll be back momentarily.
Preborn Network offers free ultrasounds to women seeking abortions
>> Ed Vitagliano: When a woman experiences an unplanned pregnancy, she often feels alone and afraid. So many times. Her first response is to seek out an abortion, but because of the generosity of listeners like you. And that search may lead her to a PreBorn Network clinic. PreBorn offers God's love and compassion to hurting women and then provides a free ultrasound to introduce them to the life growing inside them. This combination brings the ultimate miracle of life to life and doubles a baby's chance at life, which is why preborn saw over 67,000 babies rescued last year alone. Meet Maddie. Maddie was in a tough situation as she wasn't sure who the father was. But after receiving counseling, prayer, and a free ultrasound at a PreBorn Network clinic, everything changed. Maddie discovered she had twins and found the strength she needed to choose life. Your tax deductible donation of $28 sponsors one ultrasound. How many babies can you save? Please donate your best gift today. Just dial £250 and say the keyword baby. That's £250, baby. Or go to preborn.com afr that's preborn.com afr.
>> Tim Wildmon: This is today's issues.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Email your comments to commentsfr.net Past broadcasts of today's issues are available for listening and viewing in the archive@afr.net now back to more of today's Issues.
Daniel Copeland: The belief in Jesus among Americans is rising
>> Tim Wildmon: Hey, welcome back, everybody, to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Tim, Ed, and Chris, we thank you for listening to afr. all right, Ed, you want to set up our next segment?
>> Ed Vitagliano: absolutely. Want to welcome to the program Daniel Copeland, who's vice president of research at Barna. And, we're going to be talking with him about a study regarding the state of Christianity in the U.S. Daniel, welcome to Today's issues.
>> Jeff Shreve: Hi there. Thanks for having me. So happy to be here.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, I wanted to. We've been, trying to get you on here for the last couple of weeks. I saw an article that got sent to me, towards the tail end, middle of April. This is from an April 7 press release from Barna, your group. And it says, new research. Colon belief in Jesus rises fueled by younger adults. now, you know, we have kind of been hearing that, that, the rise of the nones, so to speak, N o n e s, was significant, that people were leaving church. They, you know, belief in God was shriveling. but this research, this new research seems to indicate that, once again, things have changed a little bit in our culture. So please address that. And then this fairly surprising part of it, that young people seem to be driving this change.
>> Jeff Shreve: Absolutely. So thank you again. For having me on. So, yes, at, Varna Group, we research the intersection of faith and culture. And what we found in the last year is that the belief in Jesus among Americans is rising. What we find is that 66%, so almost 7 out of 10, all US adults today say that they have made a personal commitment to Jesus that is still important in their life today. And what's so exciting about this is that this is a 2012 percentage point increase since 2021, at which point commitment levels to Jesus had reached the lowest point in almost 30 years. So in aggregate, that means that there are 30 million more American adults today following Jesus than they did just a few years ago. Which is incredibly exciting news when for so long we've been hearing stories about the decline of Jesus church, the decline of belief in God, to see that there is an exciting spiritual resurgence and renewal happening where, like I said, 66% of US adults say they have made this personal commitment to following Christ. it's actually really exciting. It's one of the most exciting things we've been able to release in the last year or two, and we're thrilled to share the story of it.
Daniel Copeland: About 7 out of 10 Americans identify as Christian
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, Daniel, one of the things that I appreciate about Barnum is that you're very careful to kind of tease out who is actually an evangelical. Okay. Because there are, you know, I, you would probably know the numbers, but I'm not trying to put you on the spot. But those who claim to be born again in America, that is a super high number. But once Barna begins to kind of dig, down and define what they mean by that, it becomes. Your research becomes even more helpful to us to figure out what the actual trends are. Why is that important to do?
>> Jeff Shreve: Well, so what you're talking about is how in research, we're looking at how to operationalize different experiences that people are having today. So, for example, still to this day, about seven out of ten Americans will identify as a Christian. Seven out of ten. But only about seven, four out of ten Americans go to church on a regular basis. So we, in our research, we're trying to illuminate things like, well, what's the difference between just identifying as Christian and attending a church? So 7 out of 10 identify as Christian. 4 out of 10 go to church. What we find is that there's only about 2 out of 10 people who are actually truly engaged in their faith. they go to church, they identify as Christian, and their faith really matters to them. It helps make the decisions in their life. It leads them Relationships. It's part of how they, relate to their friends and their family. And so what we're trying to accomplish in the world is helping church leaders understand the different needs of these different groups. Maybe the person who identifies as Christian but isn't attending church needs something different from their church, and needs a different message or different care. And for that person, who is that, really, really engaged Christian, how do we empower them to go make a difference in their community? So, as a research firm, we're trying to give form, we're trying to give application points to church leaders today to understand the different moments, different spiritual journeys that people are on in their lives today.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Folks, our guest is Daniel Copeland, who's vice president of research at Barna.
A study indicates belief in Jesus rises fueled by younger adults
And we're discussing with Daniel a study that, indicates that belief in Jesus rises fueled, by younger adults. That's the headline of their press release. Chris, you had a question?
>> Christopher Woodward: I do, yes. building off your previous answer there, we are blessed to have a lot of pastors, deacons, Sunday school teachers listening. What do those people need to do to a make sure they're ready for these young adults should they have them in their next worship service? But more importantly, what should they be doing to make sure these people are not only saved, they actually know and are good students of the Word?
>> Jeff Shreve: Absolutely. Great question. So if you're a church leader and you're hearing this data that there's a resurgence in belief and commitment to Christ, what do you do to prepare in your own church? How do we care for a new person who might walk through the door who has heard of this Jesus figure? this is particularly important when we look at this data and we find that younger generations of youth, adults, particularly Gen Z and millennials, they're leading this surge. It's young people who are making these commitments, these new commitments to Christ. So as a church leader, what might you be thinking about? Well, first you'd be thinking about how there's so much information in the world today when it comes to the person of Jesus. And what's really interesting about this data specifically is that what we find is that a lot of the growth is being led, yes, by young people, but it's also being led by people who don't actually describe themselves as a Christian. So they might be following Christ. They say, I like this Christ person. I want to be more like Him. But they don't think of themselves as a Christian. And so if I was a church leader and I was hearing this information, I'd be thinking through. I want to really empower this person to follow that person of Jesus. But I also don't want to make assumptions around what they might know about the church itself, what Christian community is like, how a Sunday worship service works. We want to keep them focused on that person of Jesus. But maybe let's not over assume about their knowledge of the church or of Christian community. There's so much more for them to experience. So empower them, lift them up in those interests to be Christ. Like as we also don't make assumptions about what they might know or think or have experienced about the church itself. We have to kind of tease these things apart, recognizing that, almost three in ten people who don't identify as Christian say they are following Christ. That's actually pretty stark. That's a lot of people. So how do we care for them? How do we empower that Christ likeness that they're pursuing while also acknowledging they might be new to this Christian thing?
>> Tim Wildmon: this is Tim. by the way, thanks for being on with us.
4 out of 10Americans attend church on at least a monthly basis
Daniel, let me ask you this. Did you say 4 out of 10Americans go to church?
>> Jeff Shreve: That's what our data indicates. What we find is that, and that I should have been more specific and said that 4 out of 10Americans, attend church on at least a monthly basis. If you get down to the weekly level, it's just less than one out of three.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. Okay. So one out of three go weekly. One and four out of ten go.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Out of ten golem's once a month.
>> Jeff Shreve: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: I'm surprised it's that high. I know that's a lot of people are. Yeah, I'm surprised it's that high, anymore. Now. 50 years ago in the United States, probably 75, 80% of people went to church somewhere twice a month at least. Yeah, I'm gay. We were a very religious, country.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: And very church attending.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: Country.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, and it would appear in shows like the Anna Griffith Show.
>> Tim Wildmon: Sure.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Where they went to church. That was a regular part of their life.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Yeah. So, but, so four out of ten go monthly. Okay, I gotcha. That's just broadly and generally. That's the, that's a, that's a general American public. It doesn't say what church they go to or anything like.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: What kinds of church.
>> Jeff Shreve: That's just among all U.S. adults.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. What about if y'all done these surveys? Kind of a. There are, I would suspect in today's culture a lot of people who say they're spiritual. I've heard it. You hear it over and over and over again. Especially when celebrities are interviewed because they don't want to be part of that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Religion.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Religious. Christian nut jobs.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: And bigots. They don't want to be part of them. So then now those people, they would be talking about people like us.
>> Ed Vitagliano: right.
>> Tim Wildmon: I would argue we're mischaracterized, but yes. Okay. But they would say, oh, I'm, I'm spiritual, but I'm not religious. you, get that over that over and go, what do. And then if you hear them interviewed, you go, that's a bunch of mushy.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: You know, you don't, you don't have a doctrine you believe in. It's just whatever you get up that day and feel like.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: Whatever spirit led you to do. That's how they describe their spirituality, you know.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: So anyway, any research along the lines of, as Ed called them, Bible believing versus non Bible believing religious people.
>> Jeff Shreve: Yeah. So the spiritual but not religious as they're often referred to, or the nones as you referred to them earlier. N o N E S. Ah.
Seven out of 10 Americans identify as Christian, according to Pew research
so let's look at the broader of Americans, like we did just a second ago. As I said, 7 out of 10 people just identify as a Christian. That doesn't mean they attend a church. That doesn't mean that they are even necessarily following Jesus or reading scripture. But seven out of 10 identify as Christian. Of the remaining three people, so seven out of 10 identify as Christian. Of the remaining three, one of those people is of a different religious faith. They're Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever it might be, but they're of a different religious. And then the other two people identify as either being atheist, agnostic or of no religious faith. Sometimes the nones, nothing in particular. If you just look at those two people, half of them have a Christian background. They grew up in a Christian home. sometimes that's really surprising to think about because still a lot of people with Christian backgrounds who just don't do the identity, they don't identify, they don't attend church. So what we found over time is that basically a lot of those people who are outside of a religious identity saying that they are Christian or saying that they are pursuing the likeness of Christ. A lot of them have Christian or faith based backgrounds and they find ways that they kind of have a bit, can have a bit of maybe what you'd call like an a la carte mentality where they pick out the Things that they really enjoy. Maybe that's prayer, maybe that's reading, ah, scripture. Maybe that is, for some of them, it's actually attending a church service. They like the liturgy of church. They like the people of church. They just don't like the Christian label or the commitment to following Jesus. And so you have a lot of people in society today who want to build it themselves, want to make their.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's what I'm talking about.
>> Jeff Shreve: It's build a bear in a way. Yeah, they want that a la carte, sort of. I want A and B, but not C and D. and what we actually find, there's some research we did a few years ago that was a, book called Engaging the Spiritually Open, is that people outside of the church actually have a very, very spiritual disposition. And that a lot of times it also means that they really like the person of Jesus. And they even like the acts of Jesus, the spirituality of Jesus, the practices of Jesus. They can just have a problem with church or the identification of being Christian. And so, there's a bit of redemptive work that has to be done alongside all of this of displaying to them that there can be goodness found in the church and that there can be community found in the church and that their interest with the spiritual, with the person of Jesus, can be found in community as well.
Daniel Copeland is Vice president of Research at Barna Group
>> Ed Vitagliano: Our guest has been Daniel Copeland, Vice president of Research at Barna. Daniel, before we let you go, why don't you tell folks how they can, find out more, information and some of the research that they can find at Barna.
>> Jeff Shreve: Absolutely. And again, thank you for having me today. so Barna Group, we are a research, organization studying the intersection of faith and culture. You can always find everything you need to know about Barna at our website, barna.org this year we have a huge initiative that this Jesus research is a part of called State of the church 2025, where we're trying to equip church leaders with the most pressing insights to what's happening with the church and Christianity today. And how can you be equipped to lead in a constant aura of change and disruption? if you're really engaged with our work, check out Barna Access Plus. It's an awesome opportunity to get all of our content and all of our findings, in the quickest and most effect efficient way. So thrilled to be on the program today. Thank you guys again.
>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, thanks, Daniel.
>> Tim Wildmon: Thank you, Daniel. Appreciate it, my friend.
Barna says millennials and Gen Z show significant increases in commitment to Jesus
>> Ed Vitagliano: That's fascinating. And to me, the thing I like the most about that is that there are a lot of people out there who are technically outside the church, but who seem to be open to the Christian witness. And we could make a huge impact on this country if the church and people who attend church regularly and are Christian and believe the Bible and, and follow Jesus. If they will reach out to these.
>> Tim Wildmon: People, and hit them over the head with the Bible, I think, I think that's the way to go. Buy a bigger Bible. Hit them harder.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, that wasn't what I had in mind, but that might work for some. Who knows?
>> Tim Wildmon: I have a different. Go ahead.
>> Christopher Woodward: Oh, I'm sorry. I was just going to say I took away, something else from the, the report, which, by the way, I did share that on our Today's Issues Facebook page. If you're a millennial or a Gen Z er and you're listening to the show. First of all, thank you for that.
>> Tim Wildmon: I'm a baby boomer and don't even know what they are.
>> Christopher Woodward: Well, that's where I'm going. In their report here, they say, quote, since the pandemic, millennials and Gen Z have shown significant increases in commitment to Jesus, while boomers and Gen X, especially women, have remained mostly flat in their commitment, levels to Jesus. So if you're a younger person listening to the show, invite one of your elders to church because they even found that boomers and Gen Xers are falling away.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. Maybe the young people ought to take over witnessing went over some of those, agnostic, lazy baby boomers.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Christopher Woodward: I saw a Babylon Be a couple of days ago and it said missionaries from Africa come to the US to share the gospel and get help. People get right with Jesus. Yeah, that's kind of the direction we've we're going in this country. People from abroad are going to start coming a year.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yep. Plenty of work to do here.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So what, what's your approach? Since my approach is hitting people Bible.
>> Tim Wildmon: I'm cynical about the whole thing. I don't know if you get that or not. Oh, yeah, I, I think, I'm not disputing Daniel or Barna's findings and their surveys.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: I just think that, I get tired of the burden being put on by those of us who do believe in the, in, in the gospel message of repentance and turning your life around and living for Jesus day to hour to hour. Day to day.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: And somehow we're supposed to make it possible for these people to accept that, lifestyle when they don't want to because they don't want to. Because people, people will acknowledge, hey, Jesus is a great teacher, or Jesus is a great person. But you say, well, do you want to take up your cross and follow him? Now? I don't even know what you're talking about right there.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: You know what I'm saying? You get a lot of that in American society that they would, they would not say. They would not. they don't even know what the central message of the gospel is. They just know Jesus loved people and you need to love people.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So you, so you're saying you think a certain percentage, maybe even a high percentage of these, individuals that Barna has found are in that category.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So that, so that you're saying they're not necessarily genuine Christians just because they answer a survey and say, yeah, I believe in Jesus and I follow Jesus.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's what I think. Yeah, I think it's very superficial and very, it's not, it's, it's still not popular to be an atheist in America. I mean, nobody says, hey, I'm not everybody. But you know, most m. People are going to say they're spiritual.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: If they're not, if they're not a Christian who's surrendered their life to Christ, then, they're going to say they're spiritual.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: They're not. Here, you're going to get this one a lot too. I'm spiritual, but I just don't believe in organized religion.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes, that is true.
>> Tim Wildmon: You're going to see that over and over and over and over again. They're going to say, you know, they're going to say organized religions, what's destroyed the church.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: Then they're going to say, look at the Catholic Church with the priest molesting. This is the road they go down.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: And so they're going to say, Are they going to say, you know, the, look at the, look at the so called Christians supporting, Trump and all his moral failures and how can that be? They're a bunch of hypocrites, you know. Yeah, that's the stuff you're going to get.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: These people. And then they're going to say, but I'm spiritual, but I'm not, I'm just not religious.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, but you're not saying that Christians shouldn't try to reach those folks with the gospel. I mean.
>> Tim Wildmon: No, but to say they already are reached.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, okay.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't count those people in the number of folks who are living for Jesus Christ every day. They're not redeemed. They don't understand the gospel message fully.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And it's probably also true that the, that the percentage. First of all, let me just say I like Barna.
>> Tim Wildmon: I do, too.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And I like George Barna himself, who started Barna research, who has gone off and started his own another group. Those two groups, those two research groups do the best they can.
>> Tim Wildmon: Oh, yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Polling to try to, to isolate these kinds of differences. but I also think that when 4 out of 10 say they go to church at least once a month, some of those are going to churches that we would look at and say, well, that's.
America morally is not behaving like a nation filled with Christ followers
That. That church is ichabod, you know, is. They don't even believe that Jesus is the only way. So, yeah, there are those distinctions that are important to make. We certainly shouldn't, you know, puff up and say, wow, America's on the right track, because clearly America morally is not behaving like a nation filled with Christ followers.
>> Christopher Woodward: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So that. No, that's a, that's a valid point to, to make.
Have you noticed how the church name changes over the last 20 years
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, now, related to that, all the. Have you noticed how the church name changes the last 20 years, 25 years, sort of related to that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So you're talking about, like, evangelical churches trying to change. Are all named after a.
>> Tim Wildmon: Try to change the. The. Yes. have a lot of churches and denominations have been trying to. Have been changing their, their names to change their image.
>> Ed Vitagliano: They're not First Baptists anymore. They're.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, there's the First Baptist. Yeah. But they're hanging on. They're hanging on to their name.
>> Ed Vitagliano: But you have, but you have. Second Baptist has changed to streams, in the desert. Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, I always thought it was funny to me that, a church wanted to be named First Methodist, First Baptist, First Presbyterian, because I'm thinking the Bible clearly says the First. Am I right?
>> Christopher Woodward: There was.
>> Tim Wildmon: What is wrong about what I just said?
>> Ed Vitagliano: There should be Last Baptist Church.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's what I would have gone with.
>> Ed Vitagliano: You want to go. Is the Last Baptist.
>> Tim Wildmon: If I was a deacon or an elder, I would have said, we're going to go with Last Baptist Church. We're not going with First Baptist. When the, when the church was founded.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: For the reason I just mentioned, there.
>> Christopher Woodward: Was a time in America where, there was even like a Second Baptist Church and stuff like that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, yeah, I've seen Third Baptist.
>> Christopher Woodward: Like, at what point do you stop, like, claiming that.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, I think sixth.
>> Christopher Woodward: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: You don't want to be like six. Six.
>> Christopher Woodward: My church Here in Tupelo was a, was a Second Baptist at one point.
>> Tim Wildmon: Really? Did you feel like a second class citizen?
>> Christopher Woodward: It was long before me. Yeah, I wasn't in that meeting.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So I like the idea of Last Baptist because it almost sounds like last chance for gas. You know, you have 200 miles, you know, of desert and Last Baptist. This is your last chance, folks.
>> Christopher Woodward: Crackers and juice.
Point has become ubiquitous in new church names, says American Family Radio
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, I was reading about this and, the changes that. Maybe we can pull this over to the next hour. Anyway, you mentioned you were, we were talking about changes in church names last 20 years. and this, this article says that Point has become, ubiquitous. What's that word?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Ubiquitous.
>> Tim Wildmon: What does that mean?
>> Ed Vitagliano: That means everywhere.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. Everywhere. So you're going to see point in a lot of churches. Life Point. Cross Point.
>> Ed Vitagliano: We got a cross point in this Grace Point.
>> Tim Wildmon: Life Point. Cross Point.
>> Jeff Shreve: Huh?
>> Tim Wildmon: Huh? Yes, we got a cross point.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, there's a cross point church in.
>> Tim Wildmon: Our Cross point in every town now.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: So points a big word in new church names. Yeah. So Life has a new as is also being used.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, and some of these United Methodist churches that, have gone fully in support of lgbtq, some of them are taking the, the name Last Gasp.
>> Tim Wildmon: Last Church of the Last Gasp.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Folks, if. I'm just saying, if you support LGBTQ.
>> Tim Wildmon: Ideolog listening to us. Yeah, I think they've turned off. Turn the radio off.
>> Christopher Woodward: First of all, if you are, you need to stop doing that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Christopher Woodward: And tell your pastor to get with it last.
>> Tim Wildmon: So, yeah, what about this Methodist church? have you heard a new church? Names include Life Church, Real Life, New Life. There's a lot of new lives.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, yeah, yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: Life Point.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, that's, that's combining them.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Life Points.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Combining Life Stream Point.
>> Tim Wildmon: That would be City Church is a big one now. City Church, usually with another name in front of it. These churches can be found in cities, suburbs and, and the country. What else is left? They can found in all those places. City Church. That's a big night. Big, big name across the country now. all right, we'll be back with more of, today's issues on American Families Radio. We may help you figure out a new name for your church.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, let's change the name of our show.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, new, New Stream of Life Point.
>> Tim Wildmon: We'll be back. Stay with us.
>> Ed Vitagliano: The views and opinions expressed in this.
>> Jeff Shreve: Broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of.
>> Ed Vitagliano: The American Family association or American Family Radio.
