Transcript

A Weekend with AFA takes place Thursday, October. 2 through Saturday, October 4

>> Todd: I'll do some stand up comedy, Abe.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Will do some preaching, and I'm really excited about it.

>> Todd: The weekend with AFA is a chance for our supporters to get better acquainted.

>> Ed Vitagliano: With the people and ministry you're supporting.

>> Todd: It's A Weekend with AFA, Thursday, October.

>> Ed Vitagliano: 2 through Saturday, October 4, in Tupelo, Mississippi.

>> Todd: Speakers will include Abraham Hamilton III, Jenna Ellis, Tim Barton, Tim Wildmon and more.

>> Tim Wildmon: Register@AFA.netweekend that's AFA.netweekend.

The United Methodist Church has split and there's a new denomination forming

>> Ed Vitagliano: Welcome to today's Issues, offering a Christian response to the issues of the day.

>> Tim Wildmon: Here's your host, Tim Wildmon, president of the American Family Association. Good morning, everybody, and welcome to Today's Issues here on the American Family Radio Network for this Monday, August 18th, 2025. I'm Tim Wildmon with Ed, Battagliano. Good morning, Brother Ed.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Good morning, Tim.

>> Tim Wildmon: Fred Jackson.

>> Fred Jackson: Hi there, Tim.

>> Tim Wildmon: You're my brother, too, Brother Fred and brother Ed, here to, digest the news of the day.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, we're digesting, are you? Oh, yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: So at our age, that's a good thing to not have any issues with that.

>> Ed Vitagliano: That's right.

>> Tim Wildmon: so, we couple of guests coming up this hour, Buddy Smith, he is a longtime colleague of ours here at American Family Association.

>> Ed Vitagliano: He was senior vice president for many, many years.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Now he's vice president emeritus.

>> Tim Wildmon: Right, he's an emeritus. so he, is going to give us an update. The United Methodist Church, which many, almost everybody listening to us is familiar with that denomination. I grew up in it. My dad was a UMC pastor. Buddy Smith, our guest, he spent many, many years, decades, in the United Methodist Church. Well, the United Methodist Church has, now split and there's a new denomination, formed by the more conservative members, of the Methodist group. Yeah, for lack of a better term, the Methodist branch of Christianity. And they, finally said that we can't go on with the, liberalism that's taken over the denomination. By liberalism, I mean heresy.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. It's more than just call it, call it. Yeah. So it came to that the denomination split. And the Global Methodist Church is a growing denomination, in the US and we're going to talk about that with him. and what may happen to the United Methodist Church, what will happen to that denomination? And so, we will speak, to him and then Coco Loco, will be with us. he's 1045. He is, from Africa. He's visiting the US and we've helped him put a radio station on in Africa. Like American Family radio, yes. And it's, it's impacting thousands of lives over there. And many, we help put that radio station on the air. And so it's. It's African family radio. Not really.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Is that. I was gonna say I was.

>> Tim Wildmon: Not really. That's not really the name of it, but it would be cool, wouldn't it?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: African American.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Get the gospel. Everyone needs the gospel.

>> Tim Wildmon: Amen. So we'll get an update on that as well.

Fred Kaplan: President Trump met with Vladimir Putin in Alaska on Friday

First of all, the big news internationally, at least, Fred, is what's happening in Washington D.C. today, right?

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah. In about an hour from now, the, President of the Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky, is expected to arrive at the White House. He's actually been in town D.C. for the last day, and a half or so, but he's expected to arrive there where he'll be briefed by President Trump on Trump's meeting with Vladimir Putin in Alaska on Friday. Now, the reports coming out of Alaska kind of to set the scene. The meeting went longer than two minutes. Remember, President Trump heading into that Alaska summit, said it may only last two minutes. I may walk away if I don't get a good attitude out of Putin apparently got a good attitude. The meeting went in Alaska, went almost three hours. So, we have this now summit going on in Washington today. Now, Zelinsky and Trump have invited other European leaders to be part of this meeting today. Macron of France is there. Starmer of, UK is there. Italian, premier, is there. They got four or five of major European leaders are going to be part of this meeting at the White House today. So lots of speculation going on as to, what Trump was told by Putin, what he demands in order to end this horrible war. Now, a big player in all of this is special envoy Steve Witkoff, who has been meeting with the Russians over the last couple of weeks, has a setup to the Alaska summit. This is what he's saying heading into this meeting. Cut number one, we moved the Russians significantly past where we thought they were going to end up. Now, I've spent, I had six separate sessions with, with President Putin before this, and I thought that we had some measure of success, but this was epic, what we achieved. I think that we are a whole lot closer to eliminating death on the battlefield in Ukraine and Russia. Well, and that's the big question is, okay, what is Putin demanding? We, reports indicate that he wants some more turf in the eastern part of Ukraine, that perhaps in exchange for that, he has agreed to Some kind of national security group with military people from Europe, perhaps even others, being involved in a security measure. It's going to come down to what Zelinsky is demanding on his side today. Now, there have been a lot of coverage over the weekend, you know, Margaret Brennan at cbs, she had, Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Rubio in and they had a bit of a confrontation because she was making assumptions as such, as, well, President Trump didn't get a ceasefire, therefore that meeting in Alaska was a failure. Rubio did not like that. Cut number two.

>> Marco Rubio: Any meetings we've had since then?

>> Tim Wildmon: Oh, no, I know, and I was.

>> Marco Rubio: Just up in Alaska, the one with.

>> Tim Wildmon: Vladimir Putin where a red carpet rolls, roll.

>> Marco Rubio: No, but we've had more meetings. We've had, we've had, we've had one meeting with Putin and like a dozen meetings with Zelensky. So, but that's not true. They're not coming here tomorrow to keep Zelensky from being bullied. They're coming here tomorrow because we've been working with the Europeans. We talked to them last week. There were meetings in the UK over the following, the previous weekend and they.

>> Tim Wildmon: Said President Trump is going to demand.

>> Marco Rubio: This ceasefire as early as Thursday. But you said that they're coming here tomorrow to keep Zelensky from being bullied. They're not coming here tomorrow. This is such a stupid media narrative that they're coming here tomorrow because Trump is going to bully Zelensky into a bad deal. We've been working with these people for weeks, for weeks on this stuff. They're coming here tomorrow because they chose to come here tomorrow. We invited them to come.

>> Tim Wildmon: Ed.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, this, more and more love, Marco Rubio. He is sharp, sharp. He knows, he understands our country, the Republic. More importantly, he understands foreign policy. The guy's as much of an expert as I've heard in years on these kinds of issues and I like the fact that he is, going, to push back with these media narratives. Now I'm just going to say I've been reading about a lot of this over the weekend. I, I, I feel for the Ukrainians. They've, they have been attacked. Russia has taken their territory. I've been reading about what's in the so called Donbas region, that part of the east and the southeast of their country. Lots of important minerals. Coal is huge. It's their industrial base. I've read that if they surrender this, give this up to Russia and it doesn't come back to them, it could affect their economy by like 30%. It's also part of the wheat producing, section of the country. Not all of it, but, ah, a pretty good chunk of it. So for, and I think this is why Zelinsky is demanding that Russia leave the country. because this is such, first of all, it's been taken from them. tens of thousands of Ukrainians have died defending it. It's important to their economic future. and so I certainly understand where Zelensky is coming from and the Ukrainians who support him, but I don't think Russia is going to surrender that territory. There's no reason why they should. They've lost, like, I don't know, close to a million death, in terms of Russians who have died and been injured in, in this war, what they did was terrible. They've changed borders using violence, they've changed the borders between the two countries. They're, they're, taking important territory from another country. The Russians are not good guys in this, but there's no reason for them to leave what they've taken, and I don't know what you could offer them to make them do it.

The Russians took Ukrainian children after they invaded Ukraine, right

>> Tim Wildmon: What was the story about the Russians taking Ukrainian children?

>> Ed Vitagliano: That's, I've heard, I've read that, I heard that and I heard Mark Levin talking about it, over the weekend. They took, I think, 25,000 Ukrainian children, from these lands where they invaded, and they've sent them back to Russia to be raised as Russians kidnapped them, essentially. Yeah, they just, they took them. I don't know. I, I, I don't know why that is a part of what they're doing. Is it because their birth rate is so low now they're going to give?

>> Tim Wildmon: I tell you, I don't know. I don't know. I don't, I don't. Who has the answers to this, this dilemma that.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It is a dilemma.

>> Tim Wildmon: It's a dilemma. And there's something about seeing, I mean, Vladimir Putin and Russia invaded Ukraine, right?

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, that's correct.

>> Tim Wildmon: Now they have their reasons why they did that, but now they're just bombing the blankety blank out of Ukraine. And they've been, Ukraine's been putting up the best fight they can given the resources they, they have, they've done well against that. here we are three years, and Russia still hasn't taken over Ukraine. I don't know what's going to be told to, I don't know what's going to happen today. You would think meetings like this would already be preset in terms of what they will be faced with and they'll be agreeing to. I'm talking about with Zelensky and some of the European leaders being in Washington, D.C. to meet with President Trump. It. I would be surprised if everything isn't already preset, if they're going to get in there and do some, you know, some back and forth negotiations and hopefully not get into shouting matches, between these, between the Trump administration and,

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, part of the dilemma is what, what are the options for Europe or the United States if Russia says, we're not giving up the territory we've taken. They took Crimea in 2014, we're not giving up the territory we've taken now, Ukraine. What. What else do you want? Well, so how do you get Russia to leave? You'd have to have NATO and the US Attack Russia to drive them out militarily. And we're not going to do that, because once you do that, you risk a nuclear exchange.

>> Tim Wildmon: But I don't think Zelinsky is asking for that. He's just asking for arms.

>> Ed Vitagliano: No, no, that's true. And we're apparently going to sell arms to NATO and then NATO is going to make a deal for Ukraine to have those weapons. But the thing. But the point is, I don't think Ukraine can push Russia out either.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's right.

>> Ed Vitagliano: With the, with whatever weapons that they get now, actually.

>> Tim Wildmon: Stalemate, isn't it? Basically been a stalemate.

>> Fred Jackson: Well, I think Zelinsky is. He's talking tough heading into this meeting, but I think he's going to have to give on, Dunbar.

>> Tim Wildmon: and that is a region that borders Russia. That is Ukrainian.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes. He's going to have to give on that. and then Putin, I understand, is agreeable, if he gets what he wants, is agreeable to a NATO security force, which is why a lot of these NATO country leaders are there today. and if you believe Rubio, who says he's been meeting with these people, apparently they're in agreement with that of being part of a security force so that Putin doesn't turn around six months from now and continue the war.

Will there be any conditions, like Russia has to return Ukrainian children

>> Tim Wildmon: Will there be any conditions, like Russia has to return the children, Ukrainian children, back to their homeland.

>> Fred Jackson: I haven't heard that coming out of the meeting in Alaska on Friday. I haven't heard that particular thing. We had the letter from Melania Trump that made news on the weekend. She wants the kids back.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. And the estimates, by the way, are all over the map. There's some people saying 700,000 children have been taken but most official kind of international figures puts it around 25,000. I'm not saying that the lower number makes it okay. I'm just saying the numbers have been all over the map. This, the security, force and a kind of a NATO style guarantee of protection for Ukraine is something. But you wonder if Putin is saying, okay, that'd be fine because they've got what they wanted.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And then they're not going to return it.

>> Fred Jackson: And I think it's if, God forbid, there is a repeat of, what happened at the White House meeting several months ago. If Zelensky gets his backup and says, no, I'm not going to agree with that. And they all. And he storms out again. Or Trump kicks him out.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: Whatever the case may be, then I think Trump's attitude is going to.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Be okay, we tried.

>> Fred Jackson: I'm. I'm wiping my hands of this one.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. Listen, there's. There's no way that Russia. I don't think there's any way Russia could beat NATO in a war. Okay. No, but the problem is Russia is a nuclear power. I think they may have as many. We m. Have the same number of nukes, perhaps. Now, there's other countries in Europe that have nuclear weapons. France and Great Britain and Germany. but we. Nobody wants to see nuclear weapons used. And the only way to drive the Russians out is. Is to drive them back into Russia and maybe enter Russia. And then you risk.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Okay, y', all, y', all, if I can use a good Southern expression, y' all help me here. Okay, I'm gonna play. I wouldn't say devil's advocate, but I'm gonna play. I'm gonna play Dom. Okay. which is not hard for me. I've done that many times in my life, intentionally and unintentionally.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

Abs says Trump should have said to Putin, get your forces out of Ukraine

>> Tim Wildmon: All right, so why didn't Trump just say to Vladimir Putin, you need to get your forces out of Ukraine, quit abducting children, quit threatening the world and behave. That's what I got to say to you, Vladimir, now. Now, what would have been wrong with that?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, be nothing wrong with saying it.

>> Tim Wildmon: But why didn't Trump say that?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Because when, first of all, when you do that, when you imply a threat, then Putin says, okay, but he's threatening Zelinsky.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, basically. Basically who?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Trump, you mean?

>> Tim Wildmon: Yes. Please don't misunderstand me. I'm proud Trump. Okay? I'm pro America. I think Trump has the best interest of. He wants peace. I believe that. I do. But to me, the. And I know there Are people said, Zelinsky is corrupt. And I don't know all these. You hear all these things. We need to just abandon Ukraine and let them be sucked up by Russia. That's. That's none of our business. I understand that. Okay. I don't view it that way necessarily. I think Zelinsky is to be admired in terms of his tenacity. Here's a guy who has stood up to one of the world's greatest, war machines. For three years, he's held him at bay from taking over his country. Now, he's been a leader. Obviously, his, His. His men have fought gallant, gallant, valiantly. But it seemed like to me, everybody's just looking at him going, hey, you need to surrender half your country, man. What's wrong with you? why don't. Why don't you do that? And. And he's like, going, we're fighting for our very life and our country. Our children have been abducted, our homes have been, bombed, we've been pillaged. And you guys are looking at us like it's all up to us to. Don't you have any principles of right and wrong? That. That's what I would say the Ukrainian people are viewing this as.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. I have no problem.

>> Tim Wildmon: Trump's hamming it up. Well, but I think I say hamming it up. When Trump's rolling out the red carpet for Vladimir Putin and they're seen just loke. Joking and laughing and. And while this guy's taking the children of the Ukrainians, don't you see how they would feel that. What side is America on?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Ah. no, Abs. Absolutely. But at the, at the end of the day, I know you hate that.

>> Tim Wildmon: Expression, just don't use it more than once.

Russia is sitting on 20% of Ukrainian soil with their military dug in

>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay. What I just said, when you, when the final. When the final chickens come home to roost. Russia is sitting on 20% of Ukrainian soil with their military dug in. It's important territory for Ukraine's economic future, and nobody has a way to push them out or to get them out without NATO and the US Going to war with Russia. And I'm guessing that's what Putin was banking on all along. NATO is not going to get in. Nobody, nobody in the west wants to get into a war. The US was in wars for 20 years. They're reading the attitude of the American people. I'm talking about, Putin. And so they're saying, we're taking it and we can't. No one can stop us, and we're not giving it back. And now you've got to decide, well, what next? And I think what Trump's doing is he's telling Zelensky there is no what's next.

>> Tim Wildmon: He knows that.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And you think Zelensky.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. You know, he's known that for. He's not gonna. I don't know that he'll do that. Although I don't know why he would be meeting with Trump if he doesn't. If he. If he's not going to do what Trump wants him to do, which is give up, what, a third of his country?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, it's not quite a third. It. But it. But it's. I think it's been described as like, 20%, but it's really important. Now, I'm looking at the map now. What this does is it if. If. And again, not. Not excusing what Putin did. It means that there is now a buffer zone, and nobody from the west can invade through Ukraine into Russia. But I don't think that's primarily why Russia took this. I think they took it because they wanted access to the Black Sea and they wanted all that coal and all those minerals and the wheat fields.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, we'll see what happens today. I don't know if Zelinsky will agree. It seemed like to me he wouldn't be in Washington if he wasn't, ready to agree to whatever Trump says, either. Whatever Trump worked out was with Putin, which we don't know exactly what that was.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, either that or he wants the European leaders to say. He wants to be able to tell the European leaders, look, I tried. I tried to talk Trump out of this thing he wants us to do, but we didn't get anywhere. And then he turns to European leaders and says, please give us weapons. We're going to keep fighting.

>> Fred Jackson: And that's the bottom line. I mean, Trump going in, he says he just wants the killing stopped. I mean, he's been giving. Thousands are dying on both sides every week.

>> Tim Wildmon: Why didn't Trump have a red carpet for Zelinsky.

>> Ed Vitagliano: meeting? I mean, yeah, but he's had him in the White House two, three times.

>> Tim Wildmon: I know, but it just. I don't know.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It did look. It didn't look good when he. When he and Putin met on the red carpet. That's symbolic of.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, roll out the red carpet.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Roll out the red carpet. That. That doesn't look good, because as far as I can instead put. Putin is a dictator.

>> Tim Wildmon: I just. I see things a little bit different than a lot of my fellow conservatives on this. in terms of the way Zelensky's been treated. Now, I know people say, well, he's got a bunch of money from the u. S. And that's true under Biden.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Administration, but, well, American politicians have a lot of money, too.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You know.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: People. And now, m. Maybe Zelinsky is corrupt, but I don't. I don't hold the money against them unless we're going to hold Nancy Pelosi, you know, for all her money.

Costco will not dispense abortion pill at its US Pharmacies

>> Tim Wildmon: All right, next story. Fred.

>> Fred Jackson: Well, let's have a little bit of good news before we go to the break. Okay, Costco, one of the huge retailers in this country, they have agreed that they will not dispense the abortion pill mifepress stone at its US Pharmacies, a decision hailed by pro life advocates as a significant victory.

>> Ed Vitagliano: This is really big.

>> Fred Jackson: It is absolutely for them to do this, and. And they've been known to have very liberal leanings in their upper establishment.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Fred Jackson: And for them to agree to do this, as Ed says, it's pretty big news.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Yeah. this is good, good news. Costco, they're not going to sell the abortion pill. Yeah. And you're right, that's. We congratulate them. We thank them for that. And also, we, we had a part to do. We had a role to play in that. American family association did. So it's a victory for our team, so to speak, and for the life issue, altogether. So. Yeah. And, you know, Costco's a, as you say, one of the largest retailers in America. They're right up there with Sam's. Yeah, Sam's there. We don't have one here where we are Costco, but, they're. They're much like, a Sam's retail. Right.

>> Fred Jackson: Very similar.

>> Ed Vitagliano: They have, like, comparable memberships and stuff.

>> Fred Jackson: Memberships, yep.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And you get access to the big box store. Now that you talked, someone mentioned something about, traditionally very liberal because they're based, I think out of Seattle or somewhere in Washington state. So I got to be honest, I was surprised that they did this, but celebrated.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, there are seven conservatives in Seattle, so maybe they. You know what I'm saying? Maybe they work.

>> Ed Vitagliano: her husband are. Are two of them. She told me as soon as her husband retires, he's like a foot surgeon in the military or something, they're getting out of there. They said, these crazies drive us. Great.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's a beautiful city, though. It is, naturally. It sits there.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Beautiful state.

>> Tim Wildmon: Is it the Puget Sound? Is that how you. I've been there. M and the Space Needle and Mount Rainier. Yes. Beautiful, beautiful place. Seattle, Washington. all right, we'll be back in, a couple of minutes. We're going to talk to. The United Methodist Church is sliding downhill while the Global Methodist Church is climbing uphill, spiritually speaking. We're going to talk about that when we get back for the break.

>> Todd: Hello, Americans. I'm Todd Stern. Stand by for news and commentary. Next Vacation Bible school may be old school, but it's still very popular among kids across the fruited plain. CBN News reports nearly 3 million kids attended VBS at Southern Baptist churches over the summer. Some 70,000 making a personal decision to follow Christ. Vacation Bible School, a week long affair hosted by churches featuring fun adventure themes for kids along with arts and crafts, singing and lots of recreation. Many churches turn snack time into an art form. You know, when I was a kid, I got to double dip. I went to my family's Baptist church, vbs the then I attended my grandparents VBS at the Methodist Church. Now the Methodist had a lot better snacks, almost switched denominations as a second grader because of that. The surge in VBS attendance could be a sign that more young families are now returning to the traditions of our faith. And the best part, kids actually want to get up early to go to VBS public school and not so much. I'm Todd Stearns.

>> Tim Wildmon: This is Today's Issues.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Email your comments to commentsfr.net Past broadcasts of today's Issues are available for listening.

>> Tim Wildmon: And viewing in the archive@afr.net now back.

Buddy Smith joins us to discuss today's issues on American Family Radio

>> Ed Vitagliano: To more of today's issues.

>> Tim Wildmon: Hey, welcome back everybody to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Tim, Ed, Fred, now, Buddy Smith, joins us. Good morning, Buddy.

>> Buddy Smith: Good morning, Tim.

>> Tim Wildmon: Buddy, has worked here for how long you worked here? Longer than I have. Well, not as long as I have had you before you retired.

>> Buddy Smith: That's right.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Three decades, right?

>> Buddy Smith: Yes, indeed. 32 years before, kind of part time retired. I appreciate you letting me hang around though.

>> Tim Wildmon: Absolutely. Now, you served as a United Methodist pastor, right? Yes, for many. How many years?

>> Buddy Smith: A long time, matter of fact, just like your dad, say, too long. Yeah, I was actually, like your dad, believe it or not. They appointed me here, to AFA and they didn't have any say so over.

>> Tim Wildmon: You served as a pulpit pastor?

>> Buddy Smith: Yeah, and I served as a pulpit pastor for about 15 years. Fifteen years, sure did.

Ed: The Christian religion has dominated the United States since its inception

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, so in the United States, if you look at our history, obviously, The Christian religion has dominated.

>> Buddy Smith: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Since our inception. All right. And if you look at the last, if you look at the 20th century, in the last half of the 20th century, if you were to look at the Christian religion, I use that term in the United States in terms of numbers, you have the Roman Catholic Church. and they have an unfair advantage because if you're born, you don't have to convert. If you're born in a Catholic family, they count you. Am I right, Ed?

>> Ed Vitagliano: I think that's probably true.

>> Tim Wildmon: okay, so I'm just teasing a little bit here. I'm just saying, okay, if you look at the numbers of Catholic Catholics, and then as far as Protestant denominations go, you had the Southern Baptist Church, they're called the Southern Baptist Convention. Right. And then under that, and I know some Southern Baptists say hey, we're not Protestant, we're something else. I don't know, go back to John the Baptist or some of m. Them claim that. Right. So but, but I'm talking about non Catholic. Okay. Christians. And that is Southern Baptist. And then right under that was the United Methodist Church. United Methodist Church came into existence in the 60s. Right.

>> Buddy Smith: 68.

>> Tim Wildmon: The merging of what right EU United brethren and another one United is Methodist.

>> Buddy Smith: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Just called the Methodist and the United Brethren. Thus they put it together, United Method. And they became the the second largest Protestant denomination in America and had churches all over the country. So I say that set the backdrop here.

>> Buddy Smith: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: Because United Methodist Church was an evangelical. By that I mean they were basically a Bible believing denomination that you grew up in. That I grew up in.

>> Buddy Smith: That's right.

>> Tim Wildmon: Something happened along the way in the, started in the 70s, maybe even prior to that 80s, 90s.

>> Buddy Smith: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: What happened?

>> Buddy Smith: What happened was the seminaries all of a sudden began to teach this so called progressive or regressive, we might better label it theology, which basically just they forgot their Bible, they lost their Bible and began to have these other ideas that they thought were better and smarter than God's revelation.

>> Tim Wildmon: That happened. And then that started filtering down to the.

>> Buddy Smith: It did, to the, it did. Infiltrated the seminaries, then the hierarchy of the church.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Buddy Smith: And so the problem there was with these bishops in the United Methodist Church. They are elected for life like federal judges. Yes. So they get this control and they get this power. And so if it's their idea that they got a better idea than the Bible, then there are no checks and balances. They're not accountable, elected for life.

>> Tim Wildmon: That's a terrible idea.

>> Buddy Smith: Oh, it is. There's a judicial court. But the problem with there is, again, there's no accountability to scripture. And so you just got, you know, leadership off the rails.

>> Tim Wildmon: So this battle between the. Between what I would call the Bible believing Methodist.

>> Buddy Smith: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: And these more progressive liberal, Methodists, that just went on through the 70s and 80s and 90s, 2000s, and finally it came to a head.

>> Buddy Smith: It did.

>> Tim Wildmon: about what, about five years ago?

>> Buddy Smith: It did.

>> Tim Wildmon: What happened?

>> Buddy Smith: That's right. Well, what happened was even though the book of doctrine we call the discipline still had a biblical truth there around, orthodox Christian beliefs, by that time, like you say, tracing back 50 years ago when it all started, all of a sudden it comes to a head and, you've got these lawbreakers in the church that are just ordaining homosexuals, open homosexuals.

>> Tim Wildmon: They were promoting that.

>> Buddy Smith: Yes, absolutely. And so there was just no one to reel them in. They just, did what they wanted to do and there were no consequences. And so all of a sudden you've got a church here that's just really no longer a church in terms of what the New Testament defines as, what a church is really supposed to be.

The United Methodist denomination imploded in recent years because of liberal trends

>> Tim Wildmon: One other question, then, I'll let you. So what happened? You got this divide now. Somebody came up with an official to separate. Right?

>> Buddy Smith: That's right. So thankfully, and of course through the years, we're talking these 50 years or so, there were renewal movements that arose, and the United Methodist system, your dad was a critical part of a couple of those. and while they made a little headway, just again, because of the seminaries were poisoned and just toxic. and then you had these bishops unaccountable to anyone, especially to the Scripture. And so finally it just ran off the road completely. And so thankfully, God has raised up a new denomination, Methodist denomination, called the Global Methodist Church. It happened, in 2022. And, it's amazing what's happened, and it's still happening. What, just happened before our eyes was, was all of a sudden this implosion of the United Methodist denomination. And, you know, because of what's called a trust clause in the United Methodist Church, going all the way back to Wesley, believe it or not, when they, tied the property of the local church to the denomination. Now that was done initially for some control, not of just so we can tell you what to do if it's not biblical, but, to keep the doctrinal focus on orthodox, Christian beliefs. But Then when the church lost its moorings and lost its focus about the gospel and decided to become something else rather than the Church of Jesus Christ, then you've got trouble. You got real trouble. And so, but what happened was, Because so many churches were, revolting about the heresy that was being spread in the church, the denomination basically became a bank and provided a way out and said, well, okay, you want to leave, we'll let you leave. But you're not leaving without writing a check because we own the property. So, some churches wrote some serious checks. They paid the price. but the good news of that is, they're now out from under the thumb and control of the United Methodist Church, and it's a new day.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And personally, I'll just make this comment. And then I want to ask you one other question here, buddy. I think the United Methodist Church did that. In other words, trying to get the money out of these churches that wanted to leave because the United Methodist Church was shrinking.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: In terms of adherence. Because of the liberal turn.

>> Buddy Smith: Exactly.

>> Ed Vitagliano: They could read the tea leaves, so to speak, and they wanted to try to get some money to weather that decline.

>> Buddy Smith: I agree.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And I think that. That they were. They were trying to get that cash in the bank.

You have been selected for a position in the Global Methodist Church

But now you. You have been selected for a position in our area of the Global Methodist Church, right?

>> Buddy Smith: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Tell the listeners a little bit about.

>> Buddy Smith: I have. And it came as, a real surprise. I might be as more surprised than anyone, I guess, for a couple reasons. And by the way, this would have never happened with me in the United Methodist Church because of my beliefs about the inspiration of the scripture. You believe the Bible, and because of my history as an outspoken evangelical Christian. I mean, I would just not. You're a pariah.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yes.

>> Buddy Smith: Yes. So something of a surprise. And I'll have to say that, I think my opportunity to serve in this capacity comes to some maybe large degree, because, Tim, my history of leadership here with AFA is. And, the Global Methodist Church has a great appreciation, for AFA and for what we have done and stood for.

>> Ed Vitagliano: So you'll be a presiding elder.

>> Buddy Smith: A presiding elder.

>> Tim Wildmon: And so what, a lifetime appointment?

>> Buddy Smith: No, thankfully not. not sure how long it is, for 74 years old. We know it won't be very long.

>> Tim Wildmon: Anyway, buddy, doing an honest self analysis here of life.

>> Buddy Smith: But the beauty of it is, and here's the joy of it, my role is in the Amory District, which is comprised of 16, churches, 14 pastors, and I'm basically an overseer over those churches. It's all about encouraging them to be the body of Christ, to be faithful to the Lord and proclaim the gospel and make disciples. there's just a new and a fresh wind of the Holy Spirit blowing through this denomination. I can't begin to tell you the excitement. And you know, in this small district of our Mississippi West Tennessee conference, you know we do have some smaller rural churches, but we also have, you know, churches in Columbus First Methodist & Starkville and West Point in our area here that are just Mississippi towns you're talking about. Yes, Mississippi towns. And they're really, really flourishing. God's hand is really upon them. And here are a couple of things, that I think checks and balances. The Global Methodist has put in place first of all, for the bishops and we have some good ones in the Global Methodist and we also have term limits for them so they can serve two six year terms and if they're still of age they go back and be a pastor again to serve out their ministry. also first and most important, we believe the Holy Bible is God's revelation. And so that's first and foremost. And we have seminaries, about nine of them approved Wesley Biblical, one of my favorites because I'm on the board there. one of those approved seminaries where again just a belief in the Scripture and in scriptural holiness and the tenets of Methodism. and you know there is no property hold on these churches. each church holds and owns their own property. And then of course just such a focus on making disciples and growing the church, growing the kingdom.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, we're talking about the United Methodist Church has been hemorrhaging members now for a couple of decades, maybe three decades because often people, people would say because they're, they're going so liberal.

>> Buddy Smith: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: and to the point of being heretical. And so it's sad to say I grew up in the United Methodist Church. Pastor. They many people listening right now grew up in the United Methodist Church and it's sad to say, however, so that church is dying but the, the God is raising up new churches, new denominations like the Global Methodist Church, which we're talking about here.

>> Buddy Smith: That's right.

>> Tim Wildmon: Discussing here this morning which is on the rise and I don't know what, I don't, again, I don't know for the life of me. Well, I think I do know the answer to my own question. But just looking at it, if you were taking the spiritual aspect out of these church denominations. And you were just saying, okay, these are businesses.

>> Buddy Smith: That's right.

>> Tim Wildmon: So, what happened to these mainline Protestant denominations? It's like they have a death wish, like a suicide pact that they've entered into with the devil.

>> Buddy Smith: That's right.

>> Tim Wildmon: and. And so they, These historic Christian denominations that help form America and then, I'm talking about. I don't know if I should name names. We've already mentioned the United Presbyterian Church, USA Episcopal Church, which they're down to like 27 people.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

>> Tim Wildmon: Those denominations, again, these are great historic denominations in America, which, because of their denying a biblical truth, are people. People do not go to a church that doesn't believe in anything.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right, right, right.

>> Tim Wildmon: They're certainly not going to write a check. People go to a. Go to anything, whatever the call. But it better have a. It better have a purpose, it better have a mission, it better have a cause.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It needs to believe in something.

>> Tim Wildmon: Believe in something.

>> Buddy Smith: Yes. And Satan is always at work, Tim, with trying to. You know, the Bible speaks a lot about apostasy, about a falling away from biblical truth and doctrine. And, Satan is just working overtime. And, we've got to be alert.

Conservative Bible believing churches leaving United Methodist Church over LGBTQ issues

>> Tim Wildmon: Were you surprised how many Methodist Church. How many United Methodist churches churches. Decided to write the check and leave the denomination? Were you surprised at this?

>> Buddy Smith: I was surprised and I honestly.

>> Tim Wildmon: Do you know the percentage?

>> Buddy Smith: well, I know in this conference here in Mississippi, I think that percentage is at least 50% now.

>> Tim Wildmon: Really?

>> Buddy Smith: And yes. And, you know, yes, I was very surprised. And I think the leadership and the United Methodists, probably more surprised. Surprised than all, you know, I think with the United Methodists, because of the seminaries you had the clergy all kind of poisoned up with this stuff, but they had not really penetrated the pew, you might say, as far as they. As deeply as they thought they had. And so I think that's a surprise because to leave, the denomination, the way the United Methodist set up, there had to be a certain percentage of the congregation to vote to leave.

>> Tim Wildmon: And so then you got to be willing to surrender some land.

>> Buddy Smith: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Our money. it's pain involved in that regard. You don't just walk away and say, that's right.

>> Buddy Smith: You know, that's right.

>> Ed Vitagliano: By the way, when this started happening with churches, conservative Bible believing churches leaving the United Methodist Church, we found out what this was really all about. The UMC's 2024 General Conference. Yes, it was last year.

>> Tim Wildmon: Right.

>> Ed Vitagliano: repealed its long standing bans on LGBTQ clergy and same sex marriage.

>> Buddy Smith: They did.

>> Ed Vitagliano: So that was what they wanted all along.

>> Buddy Smith: It's what they wanted all along. And their promises were always to the people in the pew. You know, that's. That's just not going to happen. You know?

>> Tim Wildmon: And, listen, I just don't know how you can read the Bible and say that, homosexuality is, Is compatible with scripture.

>> Ed Vitagliano: No.

>> Tim Wildmon: Teaching it.

>> Buddy Smith: No. It's clear.

>> Tim Wildmon: It's just not clear. And, and that doesn't mean God doesn't love LGBTQ people. And we're all, as the saying goes, we're all sinners.

>> Buddy Smith: Ah, that's right.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: So that's. That's also true. But the Bible, that there are certain behaviors the Bible doesn't condone m. Or conform or agree with.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: And it lays them. You can't be sexually immoral.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: Regardless of homosexuality, you can't be. You can't be. You can't live, you can't enter.

>> Ed Vitagliano: The kingdom of heaven, let alone belong to a church.

>> Tim Wildmon: Adultery, you know, premarital sex is forbidden. So there's all kinds of, things that are forbidden.

>> Ed Vitagliano: By the way, I did want to mention that the apostate churches that were aligned, the United Methodists, and aligned with the UMC were all in the West. The, the, the Methodist churches in Africa, for example, or Latin America or Asia, they were all biblically solid.

>> Buddy Smith: They were.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And in fact, I remember there were some, African bishops who agreed to oversee in the early part of the umc. They agreed to act as bishops temporarily, while this kind of, what we now know is the Global Methodist Church.

>> Buddy Smith: That's right.

>> Ed Vitagliano: They were helping them.

>> Buddy Smith: And many of those now are Global Methodists. they're over, There are over 50 conferences now, the Global Methodist Church in the United States, and there are over 25 now globally. So the denomination, while the UMC, United Methodist is imploding, the Global Methodist is exploding.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

Buddy Smith is the new Presiding Elder of the Global Methodist Church

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, Buddy Smith's been our guest. he is a new, what is your role?

>> Buddy Smith: Presiding Elder.

>> Tim Wildmon: Presiding elder of the Amory District of the, Global Methodist Church, which is a, denomination that has sprung forward after the demise, of the United Methodist Church. As I know some people listen. The demise. What do you mean? Well, the lot of spiritual demise. All right, thank you, Buddy.

>> Buddy Smith: Thank you.

>> Tim Wildmon: Appreciate it. We wish you the best in and overseeing 14 pastors and 16 churches.

>> Ed Vitagliano: But by the way, are you still.

>> Buddy Smith: Prayers appreciated.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You do, you do preach at churches. Are you going to keep Preaching.

>> Buddy Smith: I do. Yes, indeed. I'll have an opportunity to preach in some of these churches. So look, look forward to that.

>> Tim Wildmon: Ed, you need you, to oversee 14 pastors.

>> Ed Vitagliano: No, I don't.

>> Tim Wildmon: You're retired. You need something to do.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Are you. Are you. Are you hinting at something, Tim?

>> Tim Wildmon: Oh, man. All right. Thank you, buddy.

>> Buddy Smith: Thank you.

Fred Allison: If you don't uphold the Bible, you're going backwards

>> Tim Wildmon: Listening to today's issues. We're going to wait till 10:05, 1105. You're listening to today's issues on the American Family Radio Network. Well, the Southern Baptist Church, many of our folks listening, to us right now, they went through their own, struggles, I guess between the conservatives and the, I don't know, moderates or liberals.

>> Fred Jackson: Remember that with Adrian Rogers, late 70s, early 80s.

>> Tim Wildmon: Remember that, Fred?

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah. Adrian Rogers. That's how he became a national figure. He went in there and fought on behalf of those, for the authority of scripture and turn it around and.

>> Tim Wildmon: To protect their seminaries.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It's always the way, isn't it?

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I mean, that's. You've. If you don't stick to the Bible.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And if you don't uphold the Bible as you train new leaders, you're going to go the way of the UMC, the Episcopal Church, etc. Yeah, that's just what's going to happen.

>> Fred Jackson: I heard once, and, you know, you guys, get your reaction to this. I heard in order to get some of these, schools, seminaries, in order to get accreditation, they have to have, you know, you have to have a master's degree, a PhD, whatever the case may be. And they go out and they look for what they consider the best. But the best may have graduated from Harvard Theological School. So they said, well, he's only teaching English or whatever the case may be. and they bring them in, but they start to influence the students. It is just a reminder that, you know, that little bit of leaven. Leaven can really destroy the whole lump.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: If you're not careful. Now, this happens over a long period of time.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Fred Jackson: But it's also the other thing. I think there's a philosophy out there. In order to win the world, we have to become more like the world.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: No, that's not that. No, I understand that. You're right. You're right. That is what that is, the deception.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Tim Wildmon: But that's not the reality. and I'll say this to. Yeah, it's just, you would think, as I said, back to the business analogy, you would think, okay, how can we get more customers? well, we offer good products, and we offer things that are valuable to people. Well, if you apply that to the church world, if you have a church that doesn't believe in anything. Really? Nothing? Absolutely. You got how many we've heard this, This m. This, you know, Christianity is. Is exclusive. Either you believe Jesus is the son of God or you don't. That's a dividing line.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.

>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. But a lot of these mainline churches have, tried to adopt a universalist view of, while their name says Christianity, inside the pulpits, they've been saying, no, all roads lead to God.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Tim Wildmon: Well, that is what Jesus said. So it. Which is. It's got to be one or the other. And if you try to go with all roads lead to God and you claim to be a Christian church, eventually you're going to lose all your members and you're not going to be able to recruit any new members to your church because you're not proclaiming anything that people can sink their teeth into. Is that.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. I wrote an article probably 15 years ago for our monthly magazine. And folks, by the way, check out the Stand magazine. You can go to afa.net and sign up for it. But I wrote an article about the kinds of churches. This was, in the early 2000s, where mainline denominations were shrinking dramatically, but evangelical churches were growing. And I wrote this article, and even sociologists said that what people are looking to when it comes to church are authoritative churches, not authoritarian, where you have leaders that are bullies. it was called authoritative churches that people wanted to go to, churches that believed in something and that. To which they had to. That they were asked to give. And you're going to ask people to sacrifice. You're going to ask people to. You did. You and Allison did this for years, taking nursery duty. You're going to ask people to sacrifice like that? It's got to be for a cause or something bigger than themselves. And that's what even sociologists recognized within growing churches. But churches that don't make demands, that don't say this is the truth and. And this is false, those churches tend to shrink.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Because if you don't believe that in proclaiming the gospel, of salvation, saving you from sin, death and.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Hell, then just stay home on Sunday.

>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. You can find a thousand things to do with your time.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right?

>> Tim Wildmon: Right. All right. We'll be back momentarily with more of today's issues on the American Family Radio Network. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.