Transcript

Hamilton: God has called us to be ambassadors even in this dark moment

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Darkness is not an affirmative force. It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite, delivering people.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Out of the bondage of mainstream media and the philosophies of this world.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: God has called you and me to be his ambassadors even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: And now the Hamilton Corner.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Good evening everyone.

As many of you are making transition from your part time jobs to your full time jobs

Welcome to the Hamilton Corner. My name is Abraham Hamilton III and I am the host of this program. Grateful that you have joined us today. We're broadcasting live from Denton, Texas as I am attending the Homeschool Legal Defense Association's National Leaders Conference. And we're broadcasting live from this conference. As many of you are making right now are making your transition from your part time jobs to your full time jobs. Your part time jobs is where you generate an income. Your full time jobs are where we cultivate an outcome as you do. So I want to remind you to make your transition with intentionality, recognizing the primacy that God has placed on the family. We will never be able to out politic or out church, out vote out Supreme Court opinion our way out of deficiencies that are prevalent in the home. This is why I often remind you that what goes on in your house is far more important than what goes on in the White House. Because it's simply true you and I are responsible and accountable for what goes on in our homes.

Charlie Kirk's memorial service was watched by tens of millions around the world

I am still in many ways processing Charlie Kirk's martyrdom. The memorial services. The first time I'm on the air since Charlie, Kirk's funeral Sunday, where you had hundreds of thousands of people who showed up in person, where you had millions of people around the world watching that. And, and I was just struck by the, frankly, the witness of Charlie Kirk's life. But beyond, in addition to, not beyond, in addition to that, the repeated clear gospel presentations that were made during the service. And you know one of the things, and I'm going to point this out, there's a, there's a brother who lives in London, his name is Jamie Brainbrick and he posted something following that memorial service. And man, I'm so grateful for the public witness that Charlie Kirk made. And I know there's some people that, that are haters and they're trying to take certain things out of context. You know, it's one of the downsides of social media and the Internet age that we're in. On one hand you can reach people more quickly. You can disseminate information, broadly. On the other hand, you have people who are all into gotchas and sound bites, who try to take two phrases, slap them, twist them, flip them and rub them down and make them look like something entirely different from what a person is and who a person is. And unfortunately, we have too many people who are one, willingly ignorant and too eager to try to attack something that their disagreement has nothing to do with what the person actually says, but it's a caricature of the person. But, Jamie Bainbrick wrote this, and you want to talk about perspective. He wrote this. He said, quote, my dear American friends, we British Christians would get excited when once a year, Queen Elizabeth would make a mild but sincere reference to the love of Jesus Christ in her Christmas address. In Charlie Kirk's memorial service, watched by tens of millions, I just heard multiple clear presentations of the gospel from men like Pastor Rob McCoy and Dr. Frank Turek with clear calls to repentance and faith. Worship songs full of scripture sung by tens of thousands live and millions at home. Personal testimonies of lives transformed by the work of Christ and the witness of believers. Demonstration and explanation of the value of marriage, child rearing and family. Calls to Romans 13 for the government to bear the sword for the protection of good and punishment of the wicked. Declarations of spiritual warfare on the forces of evil and promises to endure no matter the cost. Calls to be prophets and call. Calls to be prophets and call the nation to repent. More scripture references and Bible readings than I can count. And a widow publicly forgiving her husband's killer because Christ forgave his killers on the cross. All of it done before and by the most powerful people in your nation and the world. You guys should be on your knees thanking God for your country. It's a light to the world. Never stop fighting for it. End quote.

Paul writes in First Corinthians that God has opened a door for ministry

You want to talk about perspective, and really, that, is an example of the provocation that the Lord really stirred in me. to start the program with today, from First Corinthians, chapter 16. First Corinthians, chapter 16, verses 5 through 9. And this is really what the Lord is stirring my heart for this moment, man. And as I'm saying this, you know, you have Erica Kirk on stage expressing forgiveness for her husband's murderer. And then you contrast that with this morning, you have some evil inspired dude who attacked an ICE facility in Dallas not far from where we are right now, you know, and injured several people. ended up murdering two detainees at the ICE facilities. No law enforcement officers were murdered, according to the reports that are available now. But that is an amazing, amazing contrast. But Paul's Epistle to the Corinthians, First Corinthians 16, starting at verse five, I'm going to go all the way to verse nine. Really, demonstrate what the Lord is stirring in me. And I want to encourage you with this same passage. The scripture says this. This is Paul writing, but I will come to you after I go through Macedonia. For I am going through Macedonia, and perhaps I will stay with you or even spend the winter, so that you may send me on my way wherever I may go. For I do not wish to see you now just in passing, for I hope to remain with you for some time, if the Lord permits. But I will remain in Ephesus until Pentecost. For a wide door of effective service has been opened to me. And there are many adversaries. And there are many adversaries. That is the thing that the Lord is stirring in me. Charlie, Kirk's funeral demonstrates, and the responses to that thereafter, that our nation, in many ways the people. When I say our nation, I want to be clear. The people in our nation are more open to having gospel conversations than they have been recently. There are more people. You can stop at a gas station and have conversations. An effective door has been opened. But I want you to Note what verse 9 said for a wide door of effective nervous has for, effective service. So some translations there say, effective work has been open to me, and there are many adversaries. Notice that the Apostle Paul's observation that there were adversaries did not. Did not cut away from or to. To. To detract from Paul's perception that God had opened a door for effective ministry work for him. Many people may be familiar with this. this Epistle to the Corinthians is written toward the latter part of Paul's residency in Ephesus. He's writing to the church in Corinth while he's in Ephesus. So we have Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians. Paul is physically in Ephesus. While writing to the body of believers in Corinth, Paul observes that there are adversaries against the work that God has for him. But that doesn't affect his perception that a wide door. This is what he says, a wide door for effective service has been opened. Brothers and sisters, I want to tell you as plainly as I can. God has opened a wide door for his bride in our country. To work effectively now is the time. I've been saying this for quite some time. Let's not miss our moment. Let's not fail to recognize what God by His divine grace has made available for us. A, wide and effective door for work has been opened for us. But we must take advantage of it. We must take advantage of it. We must respond appropriately. We must respond appropriately. I've, been saying that we must live locally. I've been saying that the get off the couch ministry is taking applications. We must get off the couch. We must be about our Father's business. The presence of adversaries doesn't change the fact or, or dictate to us that there is still a wide and effective door available to us. There's an opportunity now. There's an opportunity. The door has been opened with young people. There's been such a, a despondence, communicating guys. Young people have tried the bankrupt ideologies of this regressive world. They've been trying these things and they're real, man. This is not the way. There's got to be more to than this. There's got to be more than this, and there is more than this. But it's up to the people of God to respond accordingly. And look, I want to be flat out. I've said this to you before. You know, the enemy has attempted in many ways to try to upset the work of God as if that's possible, while you have institutions that are becoming kind of crusty and opposing the work of God. Man, if there's not a faithful church in your area, is God moving you to be a part of Founding One? It's time for us to engage. And I know many of you in this audience are already engaged. Excuse me. Continue. Don't slacken the pace. Don't let up. Don't lighten up. Actually, it's time to press in even the more. Yes, there may be people who are adversaries. Yes, there may be adversaries, but that doesn't change the fact that God still opens a. Has opened a wide door for effective service. God has opened a wide door for effective service. Sometimes we can misunderstand that because we think, well, there's some opposition here, we might get some pushback here and misunderstand that. Just because there may be a little bit of pushback, that doesn't change the fact that. That God has opened a wide door for effective service. Paul identifies. Yes, there are adversaries. There are adversaries, but that doesn't change the perception that an effective, wide door has been opened for effective service. And so my, my very simple encouragement and I've been saying this, and I will continue to say it, brothers and sisters, refuse to be manipulated by national headlines. Refuse to be brushed back by, by things floating around nationally. Live locally.

The word witness comes from the Greek word martyrs

What is God requiring of you in your neighborhood? What is God requiring of you in your community before you even get there? What has God required of you in your family? It's not the will of God for us to step over the people in our homes in order to be a witness and to be effective in engaging them beyond our homes while we're watching our own homes disintegrate, crumble, batten down the hatches at home and move outwardly from there. I've explained before, when the Lord commissioned his apostles to be his, the bearers of his message, he said, and you will be my witnesses. The word witness comes from the Greek word martyrs. The call to be a Christ follower is the call to be the living dead. Dead to a flesh centered self, centered self willed life. Raised to newness of life, submitted to the lordship of Jesus Christ as a part of being a witness. That's a status, a state of being. It's not limited to any particular activity. The call to be a worshiper is not limited to any particular activity. Worship is a lifestyle. The pinnacle of the lifestyle of worship is obedience.

Joseph Parker: There's been a vacuum of discipleship created in society

What does God require of us at home? Fathers, you're listening to me. Ephesians 6:4. God gives the command. I've explained before, that is a command from God. It's not a suggestion. The first half of the book of Ephesians is written in the indicative mood in Greek. The second half is written in the imperative mood. It's a command from God. Fathers, do not exasperate your children, rather rear them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. That is a command. That is a command. Much of what has transpired in our, our society is that there's been a vacuum of discipleship created. And what I mean by that is the lack of affirmative Christ centered rearing in the nurture and admonition of the Lord has left a vacuum. And as you you said, I never intended this to become a catchphrase or anything on my show. But darkness is not an affirmative force. But it reoccupies the space that is vacated by the light. And what's happened largely is that vacation of the light has left room for darkness to reoccupy because discipleship is normative. So you have many people, unfortunately, sometimes the offspring of people who are frequent church attenders whose offspring are being discipled by the world. And when they get the independence and the freedom, the capacity to live out what they really believe, they live, according to discipleship they have been subjected to. God has opened for a wide door of effective service has been opened to me. And there are many adversaries. As the apostle Paul rightly put it, the presence of adversaries doesn't change the fact that God has opened the door. One of the central features of Christ following is courage. You cannot be a Christ follower if we are void of, courage. The door has been opened. The presence of adversaries don't change the fact that the door is wide. Let's be about our Father's business A.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.

>> Joseph Parker: We can live like civilians and just be victims of the killing, abuse, problems and difficulties of war. Or we can choose to become well equipped soldiers and warriors, skilled and trained for war and spiritual warfare. Hopefully all believers would want to become warriors in God's kingdom. Warriors who've learned about the realities of spiritual warfare and that have been taught and trained to be well equipped soldiers. The most powerful weapon in the world is the Word of God. And here are seven ways that we can put the word of God, the sword of the Spirit, to work in our lives and in our world. Here are seven ways to use the Word of God every day, daily. We can read it, hear it, believe it, speak it, obey it, pray it and meditate on it. All of these uses are related, but none of them are quite the same.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Shining light into the darkness. This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Abraham Hamilton III welcomes Dr. Brian Ray to the Hamilton Corner

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner. Abraham Hamilton III here broadcasting live from Denton, Texas where we are, where we are attending the Homeschool Legal Defense Association's National Leaders Conference. And I have the privilege to have on the program with me a man who I have admired and respected and appreciated and actually gleaned from his work, from a distance. Now, I've had the opportunity, I've met him before today, but this is the first time I've had the opportunity to have him on the program. I'm speaking of none other than, than Dr. Brian Ray, who is the founder and president of NHERI. And I want to make sure I describe it properly. It is National Home Education, the National Home Education Research Institute. The National Home Education Research Institute, which is a nonprofit organization and he holds a PhD in science education from Oregon State University, his Ms. In zoology from Ohio University, and a bachelor's in biology from the University of Puget Sound. Dr. Ray has been a middle school and high school classroom teacher in both public and private schools. An undergraduate college professor and a university professor at the graduate level. He is a leading international expert with regard to homeschool research, and he executes and publishes research research, speaks to the public, testifies before legislators, and serves as an expert witness in court proceedings. Dr. Ray, thank you for joining me here on the Hamilton.

M. M. Abraham is a homeschooled dad and an attorney

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Welcome. Thank you, Abraham, for having me on.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Oh, man, it is absolutely my privilege. our audience knows, I'm a homeschooled dad myself, in addition to being an attorney. our oldest, we have two teenagers now. It's amazing. My wife and I have six children. Six children. And the Lord really gripped us concerning some of the things I was just talking about in the first segment. M. in discipling our own children.

Mike Abraham shares his story about how he came to know Christ

But would you just share, just as a beginning notion, because there's some in our audience who are familiar with you, some who may not be familiar with you, but to share a little bit about yourself, how you came to know Christ and how you came to find. Found near. Whoo.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: All in 20 minutes. So I was raised a Catholic. So I was a Catholic of Catholics. Paul was a Jew of Jews, you know. And, I was living. I love studying. I like animals. My mom said I was taking notes from encyclopedias when I was 5 years old in kindergarten, all that. It's just how God wired me. So I grew up. I grew up, I grew up. But I was living like a good, nice pagan. That's it. And a senior in college. I don't really know why. Now I know why. But I mean, I started reading the Bible, like, m Bible. And, you know, the background I came from. We didn't read the Bible much. M. But I started reading the Bible and then I thought, I'm not that religion anymore, you know. And traveled around and finished college, bachelor's degree. And I'll fast forward because it's kind of a fun story, you know, when you get to tell your story. But then I was in Ohio at Ohio University studying pack rats. I'm a zoology master's degree. And, you know, Abraham, I was just visiting churches. I had already met my wife. God protected her from me. She was a Christian. She was a Christian. God protected her from me. And I was visiting churches, and I'd go to a Lutheran church and I'd go to that church. And one Sunday I went to a church. It was a little church. And, you know, I was reading things and studying and, you know, Looking back, I know the Spirit was working on me. And I was in an old church where those sloped, you know, sloped floors, wooden floors. And I heard moo coming down this aisle and the robes, half the choir. And coming down that aisle over there's half the choir. And then I looked around and everybody in there had dark skin. Everybody's black, except me. I never told you this.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: No.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: I'm just there and, oh, okay, whatever. You know, I'm here to go to church. And the guy, the pastor, gave a gospel sermon about Jesus and repentance and sin. And then he gave an altar call. I didn't grow up with altar calls. But the Spirit moved upon me and I went forward and repented. Crying, sin.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Wow.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Right after that, I think the Lord just, you know, regenerated me. I just dug in like, okay, he's my savior. I'm a sinner. I'm saved. The word of God. The word of God. And go to church. That's it.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Just boom.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: It's been like that ever since. About one year later, my wife and I got married. we started having babies. You know, that happens. We start having babies, you know, and we were in Oregon. We went back to Oregon. And, she was finishing a degree in teaching. And then I taught for a few years at high school. And then, getting back to kind of hear this research institute thing. This is back in the early 80s. So our first child was getting to be what you might call compulsory school age. Right.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Ah.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: And you're wondering, what are we doing now? You know, and we just liked being with her. And I met some people in Corvallis, Oregon. They were kind of like hippies, and they were looking for somebody helping teach their children. They were like the first homeschoolers in the modern world, you know, the modern homeschool movement. And I didn't take the job, but they weren't putting their kids in school. And I thought, well, that's interesting. I like alternatives. So, I was looking for research. There wasn't hardly anything on homeschooling. So I started putting it together. We got the Homeschool Researcher journal I started 40 years ago. And then right after I finished my PhD, I did a big study on homeschooling. HSLDA, ah, was a main sponsor, big nationwide study. And boom. You know, it's kind of like Mike Ferris said, what we need is homeschoolers to visit their legislators with their children. And we need good, solid research. So, 1990, the National Home Education Research Institute. We'll just call it nary. Now, NHERI was founded five years after I started that journal and it's just been rolling ever since. I taught at university. I taught science and statistics and research methods, and then I taught halftime at a Christian college.

Why did you quit homeschooling? That's a pertinent question

In the last roughly 30 years, I'd only been doing the research and running nary. So, that's the quick snippet.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Oh, man.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Oh, I left out children.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Well, add them in.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: So Daniel, my son, has seven sisters.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Really.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: And now just, this week, our 25th grandchild was born.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Wow.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: And none of our children went to school, institutional school, until some of them finished compulsory age and went to college. That kind of thing. Yeah.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: So an immediate question that comes to mind. And you mentioned how Mike Ferris talked about the need for research. Why was research, empirical data necessary, for what was accomplished? What was occurring at the time when this happened and would you help us understand the time frame?

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Yes.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: When this was.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Yeah. So. So you and I can sit here and I've heard you before, and we can have our theology, we can have our philosophy. We can know what God says. We can know what he says. However, we also live in the world.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yes.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: So we've got the mainstream world.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: by God's design.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: By God's design, under his sovereign design. We've got the role of the family, jurisdiction, you know, this stuff, the church and the civil government. Civil government's only supposed to punish the evildoer and commend the doer m of good. But the civil government has gone way beyond its borders and we live in that and we try to deal with it. So we had, back in those days, we had people in like in the Midwest, dads getting handcuffed for not putting their children to school, putting them in private school or homeschool. and by that time we have to realize, Abraham, for about six generations now, we have been institutionalized. All right? And I want to remind everybody, for thousands of years, the norm was parent controlled home based education for thousands of years.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: That's a point worth underscoring because people tend to think because of our current paradigm that homeschooling is the aberration. When the truth is, throughout the bulk of human history, the norm was parents.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: That's right.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Training their children.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: That's right. Flip it around. I mean, I love. You're going to get me on tangents. I love talking with people today and they'll say, well, well, why did you homeschool? And I flip and I just say, why would you stop homeschooling? Because when the child's born, some of us think in the womb actually. The child's learning, but the child's born, he's homeschooled. Why did you quit? I've been asking all kinds of people that. Businessmen, businesswomen, people at the gas station that I don't know. Yeah, because everybody else did.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: And especially that's a pertinent question for believers because Roman 12 tells the believer to not be conformed to the ways of the world.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Absolutely.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: transformed by the renewing of our mind. So that's a pertinent question.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Very important point. Very important point. So we'd been normalized, we'd been. The institution had become the place for schooling and supposedly learning. So at that time, in some places, I don't know the statistics on how many states. But homeschooling, what we call homeschooling now, was either illegal or they didn't know what to do with it. And we had people saying homeschooling. How can a mom and a dad, just a mom and a dad, can they actually teach their children to read, write and do arithmetic? I mean, doesn't it take a four year degree in education to teach a child the letter A has three sounds? A. Ah. Doesn't it take four years to know that? Like. No. I mean we know, we know from thousands of years of history it doesn't take a four year degree to teach that. But people want to know. And policymakers were wanting to control people and legislators are trying to figure out, is this okay? Can we break out of the norm as legislators and quote, allow homeschooling? So data were very important. And you know, one of the first questions was just who home schools, you know, how much formal education do the parents have? What's color their skin? Are they rich or poor? Are they Christians or pagans or Jews or you know, what are people want to know and then they want to. But what about academic achievement? What about test scores? So I did a lot of that on the test scores of homeschooled children and we kept finding others. I did a lot. I mean I'm the best known for it. But on average, homeschool children score above average, you know, and that, that, that has actually gotten into the culture. It's in the, it's in the kind of the vibe now, now the really heavy duty researchers say, yeah, but you don't know all the variables. You can't control all the variables. You can't say for sure whether homeschooling causes higher achievement. So I don't Say causes, there's correlated, maybe we'll get to cause someday. Okay, so that was very important. And then, you know, some then were saying, well, okay, maybe they can teach a child how to read. Cat, you know, dad jumps on trampoline, whatever. But what about socialization, the S word? So then we had a lot of research coming out on social skills, self esteem, interacting with others. Do they fight too much? Punch each other too much? Do they go hide in a corner?

64% of peer reviewed studies say homeschooled children have stronger development

You know, I didn't do a lot of that because that's more, that's a different field than I'm into. But I follow it and keep track of it. And the majority of studies, 64% of, peer reviewed studies now say homeschooled children have stronger social and emotional development. So I follow that, I do a little bit of that kind of research. And then they go, well, okay, okay, maybe they could do okay on tests in reading, rat and arithmetic, and maybe they can socialize. But what about adulthood? How are they going to do in adulthood? Yeah, how are they going to get along in the world if they never got beat up in school, you know, and bullied and all that? So now we have more research on that, and I have done some of that on adults. How are they doing in terms of their belief system? How are they doing in college? you know, all these things. And again, about now in that field, at least 50% of studies say they do statistically significantly better. The other 50% doesn't say they do worse. Okay, just, there's a lot of positive. And then we have now these specialized alleged concerns like. But what about abuse and neglect? Yeah, so a colleague of mine and I did a really wonderful study. We're going to talk about it here at the HSLDA conference in detail. so all this research is important for policymakers, arguments, debates, legislators, in courts too. They want empirical evidence. They don't just want you and me teaching what the Bible says. Yeah, it's the world we live in. Yeah, unfortunately.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah. And there's room, not even just room. Like I said earlier, God has ordained for us to live in this world as it is. And so in order to be effective, I often reflect to First Corinthians 12 that there are many members of the body. We need every member in order for the body to function, properly. And so we need that. I am overwhelmingly interested when you say over 60, 4% of the studies indicate that homeschoolers perform, exceedingly well. is that is you evaluating other people's studies? That's not your.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: That's a lot of studies. So. So when you get to the academic achievement realm, I'm the majority scholar there. When you do a little searchy thing on the. In the Internet. You remember that thing? The Internet?

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah, A little AI searched into Al Gore.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Yeah, that's right.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Invented.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: I've been. I've been doing a little AI stuff myself, but, you know, I'll pop up a lot in the academic achievement world. And then when you get into the social development like self esteem and self concept and, you know, suicidal ideation or depression and anxiety, a lot of scholars have done that. So that's just. Not just Brian Ray. That's a lot of different scholars. And by the way, working on a special issue of a journal right now. It's gonna be cool. A lot of these articles in there, but they're looking at all these stuff and they say, wow, wow, look at that. Homeschoolers. It's the opposite of what the negative stereotype was for years. Like, you know, little Billy Bob's gonna be tied to mommy's and daddy's apron strings until he's 39 years old. And when he goes to his high school reunion, it'll be him alone. You know, that's slowly disappearing. With now over 3 million children homeschooled and so many people knowing homeschoolers, that stereotype is disappearing. But the research really helps because research is supposed to be about truth. M. So when I am a researcher, I'm a philosopher of research too. I think I try to be. We're looking for truth. And if truth finds something a little negative about homeschooling, let's talk about it. Yeah, if research on homeschooling finds some positive stuff, let's talk about it. You know, and that's just where we are right now. It's like the majority of research overall, whether you want to say it's only correlational or there might be a smidgen of causation, it's very positive on homeschooling. I mean, it's just. It's hard to ignore. It's really hard to ignore how positive it is, which is good. And I think this is what. I think this comes from theology. If it's true that God wants parents to be the main educators and disciplers of their children, and I think biblically that is true, then it's going to have good results. Yeah, we shouldn't be shocked.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Amen. Amen.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: We shouldn't be shocked.

You mentioned a couple times just now, uh, A specific issue, a special issue of the journal

>> Abraham Hamilton III: You mentioned a couple times just now, A specific issue, a special issue of the journal that you work on that's coming out soon. How can people get access to that journal and how can they access the research you've done through nheri?

>> Dr. Brian Ray: All right, it might, we might mix a couple of things here. So I mentioned a journal that I started 40 years ago.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yes.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: That's always online for free@uh, nhgri.org that's homeschool researcher. So the web address is N as in nanny h e r I dot org.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yes, folks, document that. Go and check out the research that's available to you at that website.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: So that's always there. Now I mentioned something else. In the academic world, there are these journals out there, right? Peer reviewed journals.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Wait, let me break in because the disrespectful music just came on, which means we're about to hit a break.

We have lots of people in our audience who are homeschoolers

So I want to start our next segment with that, with the academic peer review journals that you mentioned. Because one of the major things that I like to do, we have lots of people in our audience here who are homeschoolers. We have some who are not. We have some who are questioning, some who are concerned. We run the full gamut. And one of the things I like to do is to place resources into the hands of our audience. For those especially who are considering and wondering, go to nary.org and get some research, get some, some data to kind of aid you in your discernment of what God's will may be for you and your family. some of you may be grandparents right now who would like to have a God honoring influence in your grandchildren's life lives. Arm your yourself with the data so that you can provide a reasonably informed perspective to go along with the truth of scripture.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: If we lose this cultural war, we're going to have a hedonistic humanistic society. Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildmon and how he went head to head with Hollywood playboy, the homosexual agenda and the Disney empire. The movement Don started paved the way for Christians to boldly stand for truth and righteousness in a hostile culture.

Hunter Biden thinks betrayal kept his father out of White House for re election

Watch Culture Warrior today for free visit.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Culturewarrior movie Joe Biden was told, I.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Think basically that donors aren't going to.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Give you money if you stay in the race. And Hunter Biden thinks it was that betrayal that kept his father out of the White House for re election rather.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Than Joe Biden's performance. Well, listen fellas, when you got a juggernaut, like Kamala Harris.

>> Wesley & Walker Wildmon: That's right, who's sitting on the bench.

The heinous murder of Charlie Kirk has caused people to hold vigils across America

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Today's issues, Weekday mornings at 11 Eastern, 10 Central, on American Family Radio.

>> Joseph Parker: Hate leads to murder. This is David Wheaton, host of, the Christian Worldview. The heinous murder of Charlie Kirk has caused people all across our country to hold vigils for this extraordinary young man. Many in the left, however, are revealing their unmerciful hearts, expressing their glee that Charlie Kirk was shot dead. How to explain this celebration of evil? 1 John 3 says, for what reason did Cain slay Abel? Because his deeds were evil and his brothers were righteous. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer. The murderer and those who pray praise him. Hate what is good and unrestrained hatred leads to violence and murder. They are lost and need Christ to save them. Hear a most recent program with five observations on the murder of Charlie Kirk at thechristianworldview.org and then tune in this weekend for another topic that will sharpen your worldview.

The Footsteps of Paul tour is scheduled for March of 2026

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Listen to the Christian Worldview with David Wheaton Saturday mornings at 8 Central on American Family Radio.

>> Wesley & Walker Wildmon: Hey, my name is Wesley Wildmon. And I'm Walker Wildmon. And we're brothers. And our family have been leading tours to the land of the Bible for more than 30 years. Coming up in March of 2026, we would love for you to join us for something very special. A Footsteps of Paul, a journey through Greece. We'll walk exactly where the Apostle Paul walked through Athens, ancient Corinth, Philippi, and Thessalonica. you'll enjoy unforgettable experiences and meaningful fellowship with believers and, and with Wesley and Walker. And we'll eat well, laugh a lot, and yes, eat well again. And most importantly, we will grow in our faith. As the Bible comes alive before your eyes, you'll get to see the very things that we read about or that your pastor talks about in church. The Footsteps of Paul tour is March 17th, 24th, 2026. Register today at ah, wildmangroup.com that's wildmangroup.com we can't wait to see you there.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: The Hamilton Corner podcast and one minute commentaries are available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Abraham Hamilton III speaks with Brian Ray about homeschooling journals

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Welcome back to the Hamilton corner, Abraham Hamilton III here with Dr. Brian Ray, founder and president of the National Home Education Research Institute, also known as Nary. And before we went to the break and the disrespectful music cut in, which caused me to interrupt you, you were starting your explanation of the journals and the peer review process and things of that nature, because I asked, how could our audience keep up with the publication that you make available. And then you were going to explain further that latter part of that question.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Yes. Yeah. So the second thing I was going to say is that, these journals are out there, these academic journals, and some of them do what they call special issues. And so with one of these journals, I said, hey, I got a proposal. It's time for another special issue, all in homeschooling. And they said, we accept that proposal. Now, a little background. You see how God works in all this? 2000, 2000. That's 25 years ago, Abraham. oh my. I was a special issue co editor with a friend named Dr. McDowell. Susan McDowell. And then 2013, I'm having a hard time doing my math. What's that, like 12? I don't know. Years ago, I proposed another one to that same journal. And then this past year I said, hey, what about another one? It's been 12, 13 years. And they accepted it again. So this is cool. This is God at work.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Praise God.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: And then we, I invite about eight articles and then I got to review them. And it's whole process, whole process, but it's going to be really good. So if people want to, you know, make a little note, it should be early in 2026. It's called the Peabody Journal of Education. Okay, Now I know you're not going to make a note and keep track, but you can go to nheri.org and H E R I and you can sign up for free Research News and we don't send a bunch of junk email and we'll tell you when it comes out.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Guys, I wholeheartedly recommend you do that so that you can stay up to date on cutting edge research in this area. to help yourselves remain equipped and your friends, families and loved ones to remain sharpened in these areas as well.

Ray: There's a distinction between causation and correlation in research

Now I want to ask you, Dr. Ray, because you mentioned the correlation causation dichotomy a couple times in our conversation. Would you explain that for our audience? What is that? the distinction there between causation and correlation. How is it relevant to the research that you do?

>> Dr. Brian Ray: It's very important for just logic in general. People need to know this and it's important in research, if you see a pattern, say for example, hey, I put, more fertilizer on my lawn this year. I think I did. And then in the fall it's greener than it was last year and you say, wow, that, See, it caused it. But you don't really know what happened. Like maybe it rained more this summer. Maybe you had a disease last year, so maybe that was actual cause of greener or less green lawn. You didn't really control all the variables out there, the possible confounding variables. So it's like this in research on something like homeschooling, because in some ways it's called a hard to reach population. A lot of homeschoolers don't want researchers to study them. some are nervous about researchers studying them. another thing is, and we're glad for this from a biblical perspective, that the government does not have control over everybody in America on schooling. So there's no giant list of all homeschoolers. And a researcher like me can go up to the list and say, I'm going to randomly pick 20% of those and then I'm going to study them and I'm going to compare them now, you know, out there. So most of these are patterns. You say, well, if they homeschool, they do better on tests. If they're homeschooled, they have fewer suicidal ideations. If they're homeschooled, they do a little better in college. It's a mathematical pattern that's called a correlation. All of us hopefully were taught, even if we went to government school, who knows? but what a true experiment. You take your, you know, you take your 100 acres of land and you randomly pick 50 acres, they're going to get extra fertilizer and the other 50 acres going to get normal amount of fertilizer. And you see if you get more corn at the end. So it's random assignment. It's a representative sample of the acreage. And then when it's all done, if the only thing you change was fertilizer, you could say, see, more fertilizer caused better output growth of corn.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: That's because you're able to control all the additional variables.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: All these variables are being controlled. Now think about not homeschooling. What are we going to do? Going to Dallas Fort Worth and I got a list of 100,000 students and then they're going to let me randomly pick names out of hat. Say you 300. Just say 1,000. Make it easier on my mind. You 333 are going to go to public school. You 333 are going to go to private schools. And you 334 are going to go be homeschooled. And then we let it rip for 12 years and see you have it all controlled for ethnicity and income and parent education level, whether you live in the hood or the Suburbs and the mansions, and it's all controlled out and then it's all done. You say, oh, look, homeschool kids do better academically and socially. And, it's a little easier to say it was a cause and effect. The homeschooling was the cause. So where that comes out in the research is, I've done so, you know, a lot of studies and people say, yeah, but you've got the limitations, you know, that you don't know for sure. You had a representative sample, you don't know for sure, all of these confounding variables. And that's called a limitation. Some people want to call it a flaw of the research. It's called a limitation. In social science research, it's hard to get the perfect study.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: But if you don't have the perfect study, then you don't get to so much talk about causation.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: So as a researcher, you got to be really careful.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Terminology.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: You want to be as accurate as possible.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Exactly. Now, homeschoolers might know in their heart of hearts that there's something about homeschooling causes better results. They might know. And we could say, hey, theologically, if you're obeying God, probably that will cause better results. Yeah, but that's a little different argument.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.

Empirical evidence is very important in court and with policymakers

You've testified before courts, you've been an expert internationally, you've testified to legislators. What has been some of the. What have been the results that you've experienced after these various contexts have been apprised of your research and the data that you accumulated? Yeah.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: like I said earlier, most of these legislators, policymakers, courts, they want something empirical, but they want something tangible. They want numbers, they want facts and figures. Now, I'm not saying they listen to them and honor them, but they do want them. so for example, in court, they're supposed to use evidence, rules of evidence. You know all about that.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: And so if they have evidence that this child's doing better than maybe he was in public school, or if you go back some years and it's more the constitutional issues, the state versus the parental rights, you have some empirical evidence. Homeschooled children do just fine. At least do fine.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Or a little better. Now, a policymaker, if he had been already kind of pro homeschool freedom, now he has a little more ammunition to make the argument. If he'd been against homeschool freedom, it's a little harder for him to argue against it.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: You see what I'm saying? That's how it goes Same thing in these court cases when it's like a family matter, which is really sad. Abraham, I don't really want to get into that, but, you know, if the child's been homeschooled for a while, and let's say he's been homeschooled to, quote, fourth grade, and he's got test scores that are at least average compared to the national norm, well, that's going to go a lot better for homeschooling than if he has test scores that are below average. Even though. Even though we know in public schools a, huge portion of children have below average scores. Right.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah. I've shared on this show how you have entire school districts that fail to have children that are reading at grade level that are proficient, not master, but proficient at basic skills.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Exactly. But the challenge in a court is that now this is my opinion, just an opinion, the majority of the courts are still biased in favor of institutionalized government schooling. They haven't broken out of the mold. They haven't caught up with the year 2025. so empirical evidence is very important in court and with the policymakers, like I said, if you have some evidence, it makes it easier for them to make the argument for. If they were already for homeschool liberties, and it makes it harder for them to make an argument against. If they were a little bit against homeschool liberties. Same thing when it comes to the claims about, well, homeschooling and child abuse or neglect or what Evidence helps a lot. Evidence helps a lot. Empirical evidence. Numbers, figures, stats. I know stories are powerful and people can get legislators to cry or laugh with stories, but something that's done well, designed methodologically, you're honest about your limitations. That is very compelling to many legislators.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah. You mentioned how when you got started, there were literal fathers being placed in handcuffs in the Midwest. And frankly, some of that stuff is coming back. I hope to get to later this week to share a case where HSLDA had to file a lawsuit just recently in Pennsylvania. concerning some of that. We'll get to that later on.

Christian: I wanted to get into the methodology that you employ when doing research

Not in this show, but I wanted to get into a little bit, as much as we can, the methodology that you employ when you're doing your research, considering the limitations in terms of accessing.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: It's a, ah, challenge. Just let me tell you that. So in many of the studies that I've done, we have to simply go with the best variety of homeschoolers we can get. So we'll start promoting a study through organizations like HSLDA or the statewide organizations, Ocean in Oregon or check in Colorado and then we'll go. Nowadays we can go to social media and we can find a big social media influencer. Then she can put out a blast that. We want anybody and everybody. Even if your child's test scores are low, we want you to participate in this particular study. And then we use what's called snowballing. So you say now and go tell a friend about the study. Get the friend in the study. So we use whatever means we can to get to people and we try to let them know. We want to know about everybody. We want to include anybody and everybody, even if you know. And that's what we do. Yeah. Now if you go to. Sometimes there are already databases out there, usually by the government, believe it or not. And they've done some big survey, let's say they've surveyed 10,000 households and out of the 10,000 households, maybe they got, you know, 500 households, ah, that maybe had a homeschool child in it. So then researchers, we can go to those databases and use it. You can do that. Another method is, we might not have time for it, but when I did a study of adults and we wanted to look at their education background, like how many years homeschooled, how many years public school, how many years private schooled and was a private school, you know, non Christian. Christian. you can, we researchers can go to a service and pay them m to find subjects for us. And it's expensive. Expensive like the one that I did with somebody on the abuse and neglect. Just getting the Data was over $40,000 just to get the data. But then that company guarantees you, you have a representative sample. That pushes the methodological rigor up another notch.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Okay. So like I said, they all have limitations. But then that has fewer limitations.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Because you have a more representative sample when you're comparing groups. So those are a lot of ways. And then we do online surveys. In the olden days, way back with that first study I mentioned, 1990, we mailed out surveys with the paper and the staple in the corner and thousands came back. We had to enter it all by hand, Excel, spreadsheet. Oh, and now we have Survey Monkey or whatever that does that for us. It's ah, just amazing the changes.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Well, I'll tell you, I asked that question could give you appearance in my brain whenever I read any study. Any study. What the first thing I do when I get the study. Yeah, the first thing I do is I go look at the sample, the sample size, that's literally the first thing I do every time. So that, that's, that's where that question came from. yeah, because that, because the sample size and the sample methodology tells you how seriously this study should be taken, you know. because you can.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Yeah. Then if you look at the methods, you say, well, it's a tiny sample size and they said it was a nationwide. You kind of wonder. Yeah. Now if they say, well, it's a matched pair design, very careful, very controlled, and it's a smaller sample size, you say, okay, I understand. What's a smaller sample size? Yeah. So there's a lot that goes into it.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.

You mentioned you're working on something on abuse and neglect involving adults

Now you mentioned you're working on something now even, concerning adults. Is that, was that accurate or was that the abuse?

>> Dr. Brian Ray: And I have done a couple studies that included adults. right now I'm not doing one.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Okay.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: But we're, I think I might have, I might have mentioned later this week, another colleague and I will be here at your conference. 3 hour session on research. I'll be doing the one on abuse and neglect which did include adults. That was with adults.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah. Can you give us a little sneak peek? Because I don't know, I don't know how many people watching are going to be at the conference.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. I got, I got a stick, stick.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Sneak peek in Dr. Ray's presentation.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Yeah. and then. Okay, so I'll give you a sneak peek that that study was. Okay, so for that study was years. Incoming. Okay. So some of us know that over the years there have been news stories about either an actual or alleged homeschool family in which a parent did something evil to their children.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: And maybe about, maybe about. We have about a minute.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: Yeah.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: To get this in.

>> Dr. Brian Ray: I'm sorry, I'll squeeze it. So, so, I was thinking about that for a decade, how to get the study done. So we rolled, we rolled, we rolled. I got a colleague, we got some money to get that representative sample and we sampled adults, all over the United States. We found out their whole 13 year of schooling, public school, private school, homeschool. And then I'm going to try to shorten this. So we make it. And we said okay. We asked them all kinds of questions about abuse and neglect. and that's a sad thing that makes you cry when you read that. Now here's the drumroll of the finding. So comparing those who were homeschooled to those who were not homeschooled, they were public schooled private schooled. We found after controlling for all the demographics, like family, income level, parent education level, ethnicity, race, years in foster care, all these things we control statistically. Very sophisticated colleague. I had no significant difference in abuse and neglect. Now, some homeschoolers didn't like that, but m other homeschoolers were just saying, hallelujah, thank you, Lord. It's not worse or better. Okay, second bullet point. Get in here. Before we end of the get this carefully. I'm going to say this carefully. Of the not significantly more abuse and neglect for the homeschooled. That that abuse and neglect was not happening at home. It was happening outside the home.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.