Transcript

Hamilton Corner: Be his ambassadors even in this dark moment

Alex McFarland: Darkness is not an affirmative force.

Frank Turek: It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light. This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio. It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite, delivering people out of the bondage of mainstream media.

Alex McFarland: And the philosophies of this world. God has called you and me to.

Frank Turek: Be his ambassadors even in this dark moment.

Alex McFarland: Let's not miss our moment.

Frank Turek: And now the Hamilton Corner.

Alex McFarland welcomes Frank Turek on American Family Radio Network

Alex McFarland: Well, good evening everybody. Alex McFarland here. You're listening to the American Family Radio Network and I've got the privilege of sitting in for attorney, pastor and broadcaster Abe Hamilton iii. We've got a great show and we're going to do something that we don't always do. I'm going to forego a lot of preliminary or opening monologue and I want to get right to a guest that I was with on Saturday. I've known Frank Turek for a lot of years and really when it comes to apologetic speakers, he is absolute in the top two or three that you'll ever hear like anywhere. And he and I had the privilege last weekend we were in Tupelo, Mississippi at the AFA Activate Summit. That was a fantastic event. I spoke on the canon and Frank spoke on the existence of God and absolute truth. But I'm going to give the number because perhaps you have a question on defending the faith or biblical worldview. There's so much in the news every day. The number by the way is 888-589-840 triple 858-9840. And while the phone calls come in, I want to say a welcome to our special guest, Frank Turek. Thanks for making time to be with us, Frank.

Frank Turek: The great Alex McFarland. It's always great being with you. And I saw Abraham briefly at ah, in Tupelo last week too. So it was good to see him and all our friends down there at afa, the American Family Radio Network all over the country.

The Supreme Court recently upheld a Tennessee law that restricts transgender surgeries for minors

Now by the way, Alex, you did see that Supreme Court decision come down, which was a favorable decision for reality, that it sided with the Tennessee law that Tennessee could restrict minors from having these doctors, basically amputate perfectly healthy sex organs in the name of the misnamed Gender Affirming Care Net. So instead of doing Joseph Mengele type surgeries on young people, the Supreme Court realized that the state of Tennessee and therefore other states have the ability to restrict some those kinds of experimental surgeries that lead to awful consequences long term.

Alex McFarland: Yeah, and thank God, for some sanity, coming out of the U. S. Supreme court and some of the justices appointed by conservatives like Donald Trump helped not only stand for reality and truth, but really for the welfare of minors. And you know, Frank, let's talk about this for a second because many years ago, one of your books that frankly is my favorite is the book on legislating morality. And you know those that were advocating for minors getting hormone replacement therapy and puberty blockers and such, they tried unsuccessfully to invoke the 14th Amendment. But basically, and I want you to comment on this. If transgenderism were treated like you know, the civil rights movement of the 60s, it would make a behavior, an ethnicity and homosexual behavior or transgender ideation that is not, an immutable genetic ethnicity, is it.

Frank Turek: Mentioned? And that's what we point out in the book legislating morality. There are many former homosexuals. You'll never find a former so called African American. Right?

Alex McFarland: I mean never find a former Hispanic or Caucasian.

Frank Turek: Yeah, that's an ethnicity that has nothing to do with behavior by the way. but same sex or any sexual behavior is a behavior. It's not a immutable trait. It's the ability or it's, it's the decision to engage in some sort of sexual behavior. And that's what law laws do. They regulate behaviors. All laws legislate morality. The only question is whose morality. In fact, the people pushing against the Tennessee law were trying to say that minors and their parents had a moral right to alter the anatomy and the genetics of a young person. When I say genetics, they can't change their biology, but they can give them hormones. And they said that was morally right. And the same people said no, it's not morally right, it's immoral to do that to a young person who can't even consent.

Alex McFarland: Do, do you have hope, Frank, that maybe our judiciary will get back to legislating, in light of moral absolutes?

Frank Turek: I want them to legislate in light of the constitution which does have moral absolutes. So I, I don't want them legislating. I want them applying the laws that have already been passed. And, and the supreme law in our country is the United States const. So I don't think anywhere in the constitution it says that a state cannot restrict certain experiments on young people. And for people to come along and say, oh, the constitution somehow gives young people, minors the right to these radical surgeries that just, that's not what the 14th amendment was about. The 14th amendment was about not, not, hindering the rights of newly freed slaves who now had the ability to, to vote. It had nothing to do with right minors trying to change their gender, which is impossible to do.

Alex McFarland: Exactly, exactly. Folks, if you're just tuning in, the voice you're hearing is that of Frank Turek, apologist, author, and I'm proud to say, longtime friend and colleague. and we will take calls if you have a question. The, number is triple 858-98-8840. Hey, ah, before we go too much farther, Frank, I to give your website and just, bring us up to speed on your, your tour schedule and what you're doing these days.

Frank Turek: Yeah, crossexamine.org is our website. We have a, radio program here on the American Family Radio Network. It's called I Don't have Enough Faith to be an Atheist. It airs every Saturday morning at 9 Central and 4pm on Sunday Central time. And we also have a podcast that isn't on the AFR network. It's, it's the same place you'd get the radio program. It's the American Family Radio Network. Or you could go to wherever you find podcasts. It's called the I Don't have Enough Faith to be an Atheist podcast. We do two of those a week. And we present evidence for Christianity. We cross examine ideas against them. We also talk about these moral issues that impact all of us. And Christians, you ought to be, concerned about moral issues because you're commanded to love your neighbor. And if you have the ability to protect children from butchers who want to lop off their sex organs and you don't take that opportunity to protect them, how are you loving their neighbor? Your neighbor? You're not. You need to be engaged.

Alex McFarland: exactly.

Frank says transgender worldview is demonic because it asserts unlimited autonomy over existence

And do you know, Frank, the, the idea that I can change my gender, the idea that non binary and there is, you know, my, this unlimited autonomy over my existence. I, want to say something. I want you to agree or disagree. I think it's demonic because, I mean, think about this. It's one thing to, you know, God can't tell me how to behave, but really the transgender worldview is like saying God doesn't even have the right to define what or who I am. God has no claim on my life whatsoever. And that level of militant autonomy, that I am completely in control of my own reality, I really think that that's a satanic mindset.

Frank Turek: Sure, sure. And you know, the ancients realized that their goal was to conform their passions to reality. Whereas today we think we want to conform reality to our passions. Yeah, and that's a fool's errand. You can't do that. And notice when you brought that up, Alex, it's well said. You, you were saying that people will say to God, you don't have the right to tell me what to do. Notice that's a moral position, that they think they have a moral right to not have anybody else interfere with what they do, including their creator. Well, if there is no God, there are no moral rights. There is no standard, objective standard of morality. We're just overgrown germs. In this case, I would agree with Richard Dawkins, the famous atheist who said basically, if there's no God, we're just dancing to our DNA. There's no right or wrong, good or bad, there's no justice or injustice. He says there's just chance. There's just things just happen. Some people are going to get lucky and some people are going to get hurt and there's no rhyme or reason to it. If atheism's true, he's right. And yet these atheists are claiming I have a right to this, I have a right to do that. If there is no God, there are no rights to anything. There's not only no right to life, there's no right to abortion, there's no right to same sex marriage or natural marriage or trans rights, or human rights, or Christian rights. There are no rights to anything unless God exists.

Alex McFarland: Exactly. Because I mean, think about this. And Frank, I want you to elaborate on this, if you would. I mean, when we say something is right or wrong, this is good, that is bad, this is moral, that was immoral. Doesn't it presuppose there's an objective, unchanging standard of goodness from which we measure?

Frank Turek: Yeah. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to adjudicate between, your moral idea and say Hitler's moral idea. If there's not a standard beyond both human beings and that, that we're obligated to obey, then you can't say you're closer to the right than say, Hitler is, because there is no right unless God exists. I'd also point out that, in order for there to be moral rights at all, not only does God must exist, but there has to be a purpose to life. If there is no purpose to life, you can't say here's the right way to live life and here's the wrong way to live life. Just like if there's no purpose to a football Game. You can't say that you're your team scoring a touchdown is a good play, and the other team scoring a touchdown is a bad play. Because unless you know the purpose of the game, which is to win the game, you can't say one play is better than another. They're just different. And unless you know the purpose of life, you can't say, here's the right way to live it, loving people, and here's the wrong way to live it, murdering them. So there's got to be a purpose, and there's got to be a moral authority, and there's got to be a standard. And those things only exist if God exists.

Alex McFarland: And so the only way we can make meaningful value judgments. Hitler was bad. Mother Teresa was good. Osama bin Laden was evil. Billy Graham was. Was good. The only way we can meaningfully make value judgments like that is if there is an objective standard from which we measure, I. E. God. Is that what you're saying?

Frank Turek: And we're. That. That can only come from a person. Because you don't have obligations to say impersonal forces. You don't have an obligation to gravity. You know, when you try and say, dunk a basketball, you're not. You're not sinning against the law of gravity. You only have moral obligations to persons. So unless there's a personal being who is the ground of right and wrong, that. That who created us, and we're obligated to obey him, nothing's ultimately right or wrong.

Alex McFarland: Yeah. When I was a little kid, I got a. A bath towel and I thought I was Superman. And I seriously, I got up on this fence to fly off. I was about five years old. And I. I had personal interaction with the law of gravity then. Frank, though, I really did. I did that once, but.

Frank Turek: Hey, once.

Alex McFarland: Yeah.

Frank Turek: I like to say to people, when we talk about truth, we're not talking about true for me or true for you. We're talking about truth. Like gravity's true, like you discovered, Alex.

Alex McFarland: But. But here's the thing, you know, Seriously. Briarcliffe Road, Greensboro, North Carolina. I was, like, five years old. I got this bath towel. I thought I was Superman. Frank. I was sincere. When I jumped off the backyard fence. Frank. What happened? I was utterly sincere. Why didn't I fly?

Frank Turek: You were sincerely wrong.

Alex McFarland: Yeah, that's true. Absolutely. hey, we're talking with Dr. Frank Turek, longtime colleague and friend and master apologist, you know, on this thing about morals and the, existence of God, which enables us to make correct life saving Soul saving, value judgments.

Frank Turek writes about how Hollywood movies reveal God

Do you have a homework assignment for us? Do you have a book you would recommend on this, Frank?

Frank Turek: Well, yeah, I have plenty of books. I don't have enough Faith to be an atheist is the book that Dr. Geister and I wrote. You know Dr. Geister very well, and we argue from the ground up that Christianity is true. If you want to take a funner approach to it, my son and I put together a book called Hollywood Heroes, how your favorite movies reveal God. And you'd be shocked to understand or to learn that most of the blockbuster movies of the past 50 years have all stolen from the greatest story ever told, the story of Jesus. All these heroes are modeled after the ultimate hero, Jesus of Nazareth. And that's why we wrote Hollywood Heroes. I know there's a lot of garbage that comes out of Hollywood, but there's a lot of lessons you can learn from a good movie if you know where to look.

Alex McFarland: Do you know what, Frank? I've got a book. It's a very scholarly book. I think it probably was somebody's dissertation, but it's a book titled how the Jews invented Superman. And it's the story of how really comics came about by many Jewish writers because it was a messiah figure, a savior, a promised deliverer who came at the critical moment. Now we've got a break, folks. We're talking with Dr. Frank Turek. We've got a big show. Alex McFarland here sitting in for Abe Hamilton III. The number, if you want to take a call, or bring a question. we'll get your call. It's 888-589-8840. Lot going on in the culture, in the world. Lot going on in the Middle East. We'll do our best to cover much of it in this hour. Stay tuned. More with our guest, Frank Turek after this brief break.

Frank Turek: the month of June has been hijacked by the anti Christian culture to.

Alex McFarland: Show their pride in something God calls an abomination.

Frank Turek: When you support afr, you help us continue to stand for godly values and provide the resources for you to stay in the know about the enemy's tactics.

Alex McFarland: To say thank you for your gift. This month, we'll give you the booklet inside the LGBTQ push of the 1990s. To help strengthen your convictions, just go to afr.netoffers afr.net offers.

Frank Turek: Shining light into the Darkness.

Alex Hamilton: The top three questions or objections to Christianity are morality, morality

This is the Hamilton corner on American Family Radio.

Alex McFarland: Welcome back to the program. I am just now back on the east coast after being in Iowa Our second of seven summer youth camps. And I want to thank everybody who's been praying for us. It's going great. We're seeing kids get saved, kids get really turned on to biblical worldview and apologetics and, talking about, apologetics broadly, our friend Frank Turek, who is a very well known voice and a social media star when it comes to apologetics and biblical worldview and, there's a lot I want to ask, you, Frank, but, you know, you and I have both kind of been in the apologetics world a while. what have you seen change from, say, 20 years ago? Do you feel like the questions people are grappling with have changed?

Frank Turek: Yeah. The top three questions or objections to Christianity are morality, morality and morality.

Alex McFarland: Okay.

Frank Turek: It's all about morality. You know, it's like how, how people live now. it used to be, is Christianity true? Now it's is Christianity good? And is it going to make me happy?

Alex McFarland: Right.

Frank Turek: Is it going to allow me to do what I want to do? That's why I always ask people on college campuses, if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian? And a lot of times, Alex, they'll say no. Yeah, because it's not a matter of the head, it's a matter of the heart. They don't want it to be true. They don't want there to be a God, because they want to be God over their own lives. So they're not on a truth quest or on a happiness quest, and they're just going to believe whatever they think is going to make them happy. And the problem is, is when you're young, you can make yourself happy over the short term, doing a lot of fun, but ultimately sinful and selfish things. Yet over the long term, it's a disaster. And everyone over 40 who's listening to us right now knows what we're talking about because many of us have tried it ourselves. You know, we're just going to live our way, my way. No, you're not. Not very long. I mean, if you, if you try and live totally for yourself, if you're a complete me monster, who's going to put up with that? What's going to happen to your relationships? You're going to wind up divorced, addicted, broken, alone, and probably prematurely dead. If you want contentment, you got to go straight through truth. And Jesus is the truth. But it's not always easy. It's not always doing what you want to do. It's following Him.

Alex McFarland: Amen. Well. Well said. You know, I've got a stat Last week I was on a show with, groundwire.net and Sean Dunn, great, guy, and he gave a stat from the Barna research group that of Gen Z and younger. Like 46% think Christianity is not a net positive. Like 46% of, from one poll, think that Christianity is a net negative and bad for the culture. Now we know, folks, Acts 4:12, there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Jesus, is the one and only redeemer, the Savior. And wherever Christianity has gone, there's been the betterment of the human condition. But, yeah, things have changed. I mean, you know, 25 years ago, Frank, you know, Christ college guys were asking me, you know, where did the Bible come from? Or how do we, you know, is there evidence for Christ's resurrection? And we still get that a little bit, but now you're right, it is morality. You know, what gives God the right to tell me how to live? and what gives God the right to interfere with our, with our life? So here's the question. How do you approach that when there is such a hubris that God has no right to speak into my life and I'm not answerable to Almighty God? How do you begin to minister to someone who is in that posture?

Frank Turek: I just begin to ask them questions, you know, by what moral standard are you making that judgment? Where does your morality come from? And people always confuse knowing right and wrong from explaining where right and wrong comes from, you know, the existence of right. They always confuse, as we say in philosophy, they confuse epistemology. That's how you know something with ontology, the study of the thing you're supposed to know. And so, they'll say, well, I don't need to be a Christian to be a good person. Okay, that's true. But you just can't justify what good is unless God exists.

Frank Turek: And so I always try and ask them, by what moral standard are you making that claim? And if Christianity were true, would you become a Christian? By the way, you, you pointed out a second ago, Alex, that Christian Christianity is a positive in terms of, in terms of human flourishing for people. Wherever Christian, worldview takes over, it tends to lead to human flourishing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna read the top 10 countries, in terms of Muslim population and you tell me if these are any places you would go on vacation. Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Egypt. You might go to Egypt because it has pre Islamic, archaeology there. Turkey, well, it's got some Christian church history there, Iran, China and Algeria. Do any of those places sound like they're places a you'd like to go on vacation or baby, that these are places where human rights are respected? Generally, no. Human rights are respected in Christian nations and Christian nations. When I say Christian, I don't mean Christian by government, but Christian by population. They have a background of Christianity. You would want to live in the nations that have a background in Christianity, not that have a background in Islam or Hinduism or Buddhism. Primarily because the Christian worldview does help people flourish.

Alex McFarland: Indeed. Indeed it does.

You say atheists borrow from Christian theism when arguing against God

And for a moment, let's talk about your book Stealing from God. Because you know, as you reference the west, even prior to the founding of America, the West was based on the Judeo Christian worldview. And from the Magna Carta through British common law, it was really, a human rights moral, absolute, moral truth culture like ours would ultimately become, but it was based on a theistic worldview. And so the atheists, they don't like Christianity, but when they invoke their moral ideas, it's wrong. I think you set forth the premise that they're actually invariably having to borrow from Christian theism, aren't they?

Frank Turek: Yeah, they're stealing from God while they're arguing against him. Like for example, you mentioned evil. They'll say there's too much evil in the world. But then you ask them, what do you mean by evil? They can't discover what evil is unless they have a standard of good. Because evil is not a thing in itself. It's a lack and a good thing. I mean, evil is like cancer. If you take all the cancer out of a good body, you've got a better body. But what happens if you take all the body out of the cancer? You got nothing. It doesn't exist. Or evil is like rust in a car. If you take all the rust out of a car, you got a better car. What happens if you take all the car out of the rust? You got a Pinto Right. Now it doesn't exist.

Alex McFarland: Right.

Frank Turek: So evil is a privation or a parasite in good. And as soon as atheists say there's too much evil in the world, they're presupposing good. But good does not exist in an atheistic worldview. So where do they get their concept of good from? They steal it from God while claiming he doesn't exist. So that's why the book is called Stealing from God. Why? Atheists need God to make their case. And they do the same thing with reason and information and morality and Science and causality. They, they steal from God while claiming God doesn't exist. In effect, they have to sit in God's lap to slap his face.

There are two steps we need to take to show that Christianity is true

Alex McFarland: I got one last question for you. do you have a favorite area of apologetics or when you became a believer, Dr. Frank Turek, and you understood the gospel, it clicked for you. You gave your life to Christ. Was there, an argument that you found especially compelling? and if so, what would that be?

Frank Turek: Yeah, there are two major steps we need to take to show that Christianity is true. And one is to show that God exists. And the second is to show that Jesus rose from the dead. So if those two facts are true, that God exists and Jesus rose from the dead, then game over. Christianity is true. You can show the whole Bible is true if those two facts are true. and for me, the primary argument for God that I find persuasive, I find a lot of them persuasive. But I think the one that gives me the most attributes of God is what we call the cosmological argument that the universe had a beginning, that space, time and matter had a beginning. And if it had a beginning, then it must have had a beginner. And even atheists are admitting the universe had a beginning. Well, if space, time and matter had a beginning, then whatever caused space, time and matter can't be made of space, time and matter. It must transcend space, time and matter. And so the cause must at least be spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal in order to choose to create. And also intelligent. And I always ask audiences, I say, hey, when you think about a spaceless, timeless, immaterial, powerful, personal, intelligent cause, who do you think of? And they always say God. But then they might say, well, how do you know it's the Christian God? And my answer is we don't yet. This could be Allah or some other theistic or deistic God. But if you can get evidence that Jesus rose from the dead, and there's good evidence that he did, then we can say that the same being that walked out of the tomb 1992 years ago is the same being in whose divine nature created the universe out of nothing. And I think one of the best evidences that they. That Jesus rose from the dead, there's several, but I'll just mention one of them is there's too many embarrassing details in the text. Alex.

Frank Turek: That never would have been invented if this was an invented story. Like the disciples wouldn't have said that, that, that Jesus scolded Peter and called him Satan. They would, it wouldn't have said that.

Alex McFarland: the, women went to the tomb first.

Frank Turek: What's that?

Alex McFarland: Well, the women went to the tomb first.

Frank Turek: Oh, women went to the tomb first. They wouldn't say that Peter, denied Christ three times. They wouldn't say they ran away and hid for fear of the Jews. They wouldn't say they doubted after he was resurrected. Matthew 28:17. Right. They wouldn't say that Jesus was called a madman, a drunkard, a, you know, demon possessed. They wouldn't hang them on a tree. That was considered blasphemy or considered someone who was under God's curse. To the Jews. You wouldn't crucify your, your Messiah. Right. You wouldn't make this up, in other words. And they didn't think that one guy would rise from the dead in the middle of time. they didn't think a guy could claim to be God. That was blasphemy. These were Jews. They're not making this up. So there's very good evidence he rose from the dead. That's just one line of at least 10 lines of evidence we talk about. And I don't have enough faith to be an atheist.

Alex McFarland: Sure. And you know, you, a moment ago, you mentioned the universe had a beginning. I mean, God must exist. I mean, the universe had a beginning, and since nothing can cause itself to exist, there had to have been a cause. You know, it's funny, I was on science.com, frank, I'll tell you this, and I'll let you go, my dear friend. there was an article about panspermia. Was, did aliens seed life here? Did they come from another galaxy and see life? And this article on science.com, it was saying, well, whoever these forces were that brought life here, it had to be beyond nature, like supernatural and, all power, all knowledge, all ability. And I thought you're trying to posit that aliens brought life here, but you're telling me about the attributes of God. And if you're going to invoke a supernatural, outside causal force, why not go with the one we have evidence for, right?

Frank Turek: Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. I think Wes Huff made this point on Rogan. He said, Rogan said something about the fact that the atheists want you to believe in at least one miracle, the, you know, the creation of the universe out of nothing. And, and Wes said, yeah, they don't have any problem with the virgin birth of the universe, but they have a problem with the virgin birth of Christ.

Alex McFarland: Wow. Right? That's great. That's Great.

Frank Turek: Now of course Christ, was virgin born, but he had a cause. God. Right. He was virgin conceived. Well, the same thing is true with the universe. And by the way, the atheists believe in a lot more miracles than we. Than, than, than they say. They believe that no one created something out of nothing. They believe that life gave rise to non life without intelligence. They believe, of course the universe is fine tuned without a fine tuner.

Alex McFarland: Well, inanimate matter produced consciousness.

Frank Turek: Yeah, matter produced. They believe all these things without any sort of intelligence. And it, it seems to take a lot more faith to believe that than to believe that there is an uncaused first cause who created and sustains the entire universe.

You know, I've got a book title for you, Frank

Alex McFarland: You know, I've got a book title for you, Frank. You should do a book called I Don't have enough Faith to be an Atheist.

Frank Turek: Brilliant.

Alex McFarland: Go for it, man. Hey, you're welcome.

Frank Turek: Must have done that already.

Alex McFarland: Hey, I gotta let you go. We're gonna change gears.

Alex Turek: Give us your website one more time, brother

Hey, let's visit again. And there, there are like a thousand more questions that I want to ask you. But I want to thank you for your time tonight. And folks, go hear him when he comes to a town near you. It's Dr. Frank Turek, Cross examined. A. give us your website one more time, brother.

Frank Turek: Crossexamine.org that's cross examined with a D on the D on the end of it dot org. Don't forget we're on the American Family Radio network Saturday mornings, 9am M Central and 4pm M. Central on Sunday. And we do two podcasts. So look for the I don't have enough faith to be an atheist podcast. Also we have a YouTube channel, the Cross Examined YouTube channel. Two words. There's 2700 videos up there. Most of them are Q and A's from the college campus. So just about every question has been asked and it's on camera so you can check it out.

Alex McFarland: Godspeed, my friend. Thank, thanks for being with us.

Frank Turek: Thanks Alex. God bless you.

Alex McFarland welcomes Colonel Ray Moore to American Family Radio Network

Alex McFarland: This is Alex McFarland. You're listening to the American Family Radio Network. We're going to change gears and I know we've got a break coming up. I want to queue up longtime friend and colleague, ah, Dr. Ray Moore of Exodus International. And we'll have to have a brief greeting and then we'll go, in deep conversation in the third segment. But Colonel Ray Moore, thanks for holding and welcome to the program. You.

Speaker C: You see me, right? I see you.

Alex McFarland: I do see you, yes. How have you been, my friend?

Speaker C: Okay, good.

Alex McFarland: It's good to have you on. And, you know, when we hear that music.

Ray Moore of Exodus Mandate talks about Christian schooling and homeschooling

I'll take this commercial break, but, the exodus Mandate. Mandate, yes. give us that website if you would, Ray. Exodusmandate.org you know, you've got to feel pretty good about the. Even today I was talking with parents who have gotten their kids out of public. I call it government schools. I used to say public schools. Government schools. the millions that have, gone into Christian schooling or homeschooling since COVID kind of makes you look like a prophet, my friend.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's been pretty gratifying. You know, obedience to God is his own reward. But we're living. Living our dream now. It's coming to pass.

Alex McFarland: Yeah. Wow. And you and I have an event this fall. I know that's a long ways away and we'll talk again before that. But folks, we're talking with colonel, E. Ray Moore of Exodus mandate. And we'll talk about education. Talk about a lot going on in the world, but this is the Hamilton corner on the American family radio network. Alex McFarland sitting in for Abe Hamilton. If you recognize my voice, it's probably from exploring the word, which is also heard on AFR every hour, afternoon three to four. And you can listen to this program again@afr.net where all the shows are archived. Stay tuned. Colonel Ray Moore after this brief break. Don't go away. AFA, action takes attacks on the family seriously.

Frank Turek: The enemies of the family constantly employ new tactics to try to sneak past our radar.

Alex McFarland: They know if we stand together, their evil plans will fail.

Frank Turek: Your gift to AFA action allows us to stay vigilant against their onslaught. And if you give this month, you'll receive access to the cultural institute video when your faith is illegal by Frank harbor on AFA stream as our thanks, you can make your gift today@acaaction.net all.

Speaker C: Right, Sandy Rios with you. One more drama playing out.

Frank Turek: Is the sky falling? Are we going into recession? Are you going to lose all of your 401k? Are you going to lose your job?

Speaker C: Are you going to be able to afford groceries?

Frank Turek: People better be training their kids, getting.

Speaker C: Back into church, Sunday school, reading the bible. That revolution will save this country.

Alex McFarland: We've had a political revolution. Now we need a spiritual revolution.

Hamilton Corner: CEI Summit 6 is scheduled for September in Virginia

Frank Turek: Sandy rios on Sandy Rios 247 listen on the podcast page at afr.net the Hamilton Corner podcast and one minute commentaries are available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Alex McFarland: Dr. Eray Moore is not Only a servant of the King. He has honorably served our country in the military and I'm going to be with him in September. I know this is a long way off and we'll no doubt have him on the radio prior to that. But in September in Lynchburg, Virginia There is the CEI Summit 6 and I'll be speaking on advancing Christ Kingdomnomics through biblical worldview education. And I know there'll be other speakers. Dr. Ray Moore. This is ah, kind of a Christian homeschooling event. Is this open to the public at all?

Speaker C: Well, we, we, it's open but we invite, we want leaders. It's not a, just open for anybody to show up. They have to register and it's a conference of, of major leaders like cnp, you know that.

Alex McFarland: Yes.

Speaker C: And so it's. So yeah, if someone is a leader in Christian education or worldview and that could be higher ed or K12 homeschooling, you know, we would invite them. And if they're interested they can contact us through the webpage Christ edu.org right. Christedu.org but they have to register.

Alex McFarland: Right. And that September 25 through 27 in Lynchburg.

Speaker C: 26 and 27 oh, 26 on the 2026 and 27 in Lynchburg, adjacent to the Liberty University campus.

Alex McFarland: Sure, sure.

Alex King: Exodus Mandate advocates getting parents out of public schools

Well, I want to talk about what's going on kind of in the world because more than ever I think it's important that parents really take a proactive, very involved role in the education of their kids. And my day began in Iowa, Ray and I was talking with parents early this morning about what's going on in the public school classroom. And they were wanting to know what are our options. And Alex, what do you recommend? And I said look, my mother was a public school teacher for 28 years. Very, very godly woman. My mom's in heaven now. My sister was a public school high, school science teacher. But the public school has gone so far left, so far woke Anti American globalist, Marxist. do you feel like it's just imperative that parents get their kids in some different approach toward their, their education than government run schools?

Speaker C: Well, I felt that way for 30 something years.

Alex McFarland: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: And I was kind of alone in advocating it over 30 years ago. but we stayed with it and kept going and, and now it's becoming a, you know, accepted position for Christians and more and more people are saying it's a necessary thing to do. So yeah, I, I don't have any I felt it 30 years ago when I started Exodus Mandate, that it was imperative for Christians to get their kids out. But it was very hard to awaken the church because, so many people are embedded in the public school system and they thought somehow it could be reformed, but it cannot be reformed. And we've got a little pamphlet on that. If somebody will write us an Exodus Mandate and ask for it@exodusmandate.org we'll send them this little pamphlet explaining why you can't take back the schools. And the longer people advocate public school reform and try to run the school board and these things, they just, they're wasting our time and, and they won't have any success.

Ray: Some Southern Baptists are beginning to preach about moral crisis

Alex McFarland: Do you feel like, you know, with, the overwhelming majority that Trump won, you know, back in November and so many seats were flipped. M. And I do think some pastors were emboldened to begin to preach about just the moral crisis that we're in. Do you feel, or do you see hope, even though we are so far down the river, morally, culturally, spiritually, but do you believe there's a turnaround in process, not only the restoration of the church and the Christian family, but even our constitutional government? Ray, are you, are you hopeful that perhaps sanity is coming back?

Speaker C: Yeah, I am. And, but I think that we will not see the recovery that we pray and look for, the revival that we pray and hope and look for if we don't save our children. if the left could win the abortion battle, the same sex marriage, socialism, and we still have the children and get our children out into Christian schools and homeschooling. We win in the long run. You know that old saying, he who has all the toys at the end wins. Well, he who has the children at the end wins. So we can win this war if we save our children. And, I'm happy to report that the Southern Baptists are finally seem to be making a turnabout. we've got a group that goes to the Southern Baptist annual meeting every year and they went a couple of years ago and then they came, they went to the most recent one in Dallas. And he said we were just swarmed, that our table was just swarmed by Southern Baptist ministers asking for material about Christian education. Homeschooling. I said, what do you think's going on? I, I, I couldn't get him. Listen to me. A few years ago. And he said, ray, the transgender movement is driving them up the wall. Wow. He says, I, I hope they keep doing It I hope they keep more transgender the better because it's forcing these pastors to, you know, take stock.

Ray: The media are mischaracterizing the Minnesota shooting as an evangelical incident

Alex McFarland: I want to change gears a little bit, and talk about well for one thing how the media, often the secular media, the legacy mainstream media, they've tried to demonize those that homeschool and tried to say that right wing Christians are just the problem. But in their spirit of mischaracterizing things, tragedy. Tragically, the, the two Minnesota lawmakers that were shot, a man named Vance Belter or B O E L T E R Boelter, however it's pronounced, they're trying to paint him as quote, an evangelical Christian. an assertion to which I vehemently disagree because you know, no Christian, no follower of Christ commits murder like that. A, ah, follower of Satan would, but not a follower of Jesus. Ray, if you would talk about just the way the media tries to spin things and maybe in specifically this, the, the June 14th shooting, how they're trying to say this guy was a conservative and a Christian.

Speaker C: this. There's an old saying that in the animal kingdom it's to eat or be eaten. In the human kingdom is to define or be defined. And they're trying to define us by this incident in Minnesota a few days ago. Now, is possible that a, a Christian who is out of fellowship with God and in a state of rebellion and not following the word of God could commit some terrible act. we're not immune from that. My old professor at Dallas Seminary years ago said where there's light, there's bugs. And this is a case of that. this guy was affiliated with an aberrant Christian group, if indeed it was Christian. He went to Christ for the nation's Bible Institute. And I'm sure there are many wonderful people there, but he graduated from that school. It's in Dallas. And it has a tendency to attract some, you know, more aberrant groups, even though I gained one, not making a blanket condemnation. But he's a graduate of that school. Now to their credit, they recently published a paper, a statement yesterday, a day before, repudiating him and what he did and expressing great regret. And I was real proud of them, to see that. But he, they saying he's an ordained minister. I don't know that that's really true. He could be a self identified, you know, ordained minister. No, you know, no, I don't know what his credentials are other than going to that school.

Speaker C: But he was in Africa speaking. And I didn't see the sermon, but my son looked at, he said he was advocating for modern day apostles and prophets. And that's a characteristic of what we call the new Apostolic Reformation, which is a very major large aberrant group. And there's a book here published by Holly Pivot and Doug Guyvet. yeah, I know Doug, professor at Talbot or Viola. And they've written four books on the new Apostolic Reformation. Here's one of them. And and so it's a, it's a very conservative group, but they claim to be evangelical Christian, but they have aberrant teachings and such as modern day apostles and prophets, which will replace the governing system of evangelicalism and even Catholicism, what we would call presbyters or elders and pastors and bishops. And they're going to replace that system with apostles and prophets. It's an era. And he was advocating the apostles, and prophets. On his sermon in Congo, my son looked at it, he says a bunch of platitudes, but you really wouldn't call it a sermon.

Alex McFarland: Right.

Speaker C: I think we need to reject that. Not, he's not one of us. And we need to make that case and you know, not. And not embrace, what he's. What he is.

Alex McFarland: Yeah. And I mean to the watching world that really doesn't know Christianity, or maybe even doesn't know Christ. I mean, when the word Christian is thrown out by the pop media, they just tend to want to lump all of us together. but like you said, this new Apostolic Reformation, folks, an apostle was one who saw the risen Jesus or was with Jesus. You know, Paul was an apostle, Peter was an apostle. This man from the shooter from Minnesota, Vance, Belter, he is not an apostle. there are aberrant movements, not only the new Apostolic Reformation, but the red, so called Red letter Christians. I spoke on this, last week at the Activate Summit in Tupelo. And it might sound really pious. Oh, I only read the red letters, the words of Christ. But to, cut out the Old Testament and to suppress and deny the writings of Paul and the rest of the New Testament, that really goes. That's a heresy that was condemned by the early church. Goes back to a person named Marcion. Marcionism, you know, to slice and dice the Bible to suit me. You know, Ray, it was interesting. and maybe you and I can do an entire show on some of these aberrant movements that we need to identify, that. Look, this is not classical Christian orthodoxy, but it's interesting Regarding, like the, the new, the red letter only Christians, whenever, Christians have done like Marcion of old and said, oh, well, I'm going to unhitch the Old Testament like Andy Stanley says. Do you, Marcionism, or cutting the Bible up to suit ourselves always runs on a parallel track with antisemitism. And isn't it interesting, as you and I have lived in the years recently of, you know, professed Christians just making Christianity suit whatever they say it is, we've also seen a number of, unsettling trends, but we've seen a return of antisemitism. That's what happens when we cut loose from the foundation, that is.

Speaker C: Yeah, this man, Vance Bolter, we, I wouldn't claim him as one of our kind and we need to do everything we can to separate our identity from his. But, even if he could have been, the vast majority of these violent acts are committed by the left. I mean it probably 10, 20 to 1, but you know, every now and then somebody that might be in our camp is going to lose it. And you know, and so because we're fallen and sinful people and Christians are not immune to some kind of, you know, act like that. But look at what happened with the, anti Semitic shooter in Washington D.C. recently who shot down those two Jewish, young people. They were engaged, you know, they were Christians, they were messianic Jews. They were Jews, but they were Christian Jews.

Alex McFarland: Colonel Moore, two weeks ago today I had the privilege of interviewing M. Michael Rydelnik, who, longtime faculty member at Moody Bible Institute and born again Jewish man. And he was talking about how that it was tragic that young couple was gunned down at the Jewish Embassy. But praise God, they were believers in Messiah, they were believers in Jesus. But hey, folks, here's the thing. Sinners can sin. Sinners sin. Ray, you're always a blessing to talk to. So educational. Give us your website again before we run out of time.

Speaker C: If you would, exodusmandate.org and I'd urge your audience to, to go to Amazon and order this book by Counterfeit, Counterfeit Kingdomnomics by Doug Kybet and Holly Pivot. It's a classic. And they're. And he's a Dallas Seminary graduate and taught at Talbot Seminary and is a real credible scholar.

Alex McFarland: Yeah, very much so. Colonel Ray Moore, Exodus Mandate. Thanks for being with us.

Keep your radio tuned to the American Family Radio Network and tell somebody about Jesus

Alex McFarland here, my website, Alex McFarlane, my travel schedule, our summer camps. Charlie Kirk is coming this summer. A lot going on. Keep us in prayer, please. Keep your radio tuned to the American Family Radio Network and tell somebody about Jesus.

Speaker C: The views and opinions expressed in this.

Alex McFarland: Broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.