The Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio features Abraham Hamilton III
Abraham Hamilton III: Darkness is not an affirmative force. It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: This is the, Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
Abraham Hamilton III: It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite, delivering people.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Out of the bondage of mainstream media and the philosophies of this world.
Abraham Hamilton III: God has called you and me to be his ambassadors, even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: And now, the, Hamilton Corner.
Abraham Hamilton III: Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Hamilton Corner. Abraham Hamilton III is my name and I'm host of the program. Thank you for joining us this evening. I am joined, as is our custom here, by the corner contingent right across from me, my man, 100 grand, Mr. Bobby Rosa. And look, Jeff, he ain't think I noticed it, but you see him with the. He got the Pat Wriley with the comb with the slick going back. You ain't think I noticed that today? Hey, hey, you work what you got. You got the slick going on. I noticed that. And in the screening room, we have produce extraordinaire, often imitated, but never duplicated. Y' all know the deal. The real J. Mac. Ladies and gentlemen, we are ready to rock and roll. Yes, get a good picture on the slick, Jeff. That's what I'm talking about. Produce extraordinaire. And we are ready to rock and roll with today's edition of the program. Man, step away for a few moments and all kind of things happen. I wasn't with you earlier this week because. Because I was in D.C. attending to some legal business on behalf of the American Family Association. but I'm glad to be back with you this evening.
Welcome to the American Family Radio Network
Let me first. The first thing I want to do is welcome to the American Family Radio Network. Two stations in Alabama, W, R Y D, 97.7 FM M and WKUA, 88.5 FM, both in the Birmingham listening area and in the Tuscaloosa, Alabama listening area. Welcome to the American Family Radio. Family, we're glad to have you with us here. Those stations should be live right now.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Also.
Abraham Hamilton III: I mean, man, you want to.
Michigan Democrat Gary Peters announced he is not running for reelection in 2026
Talking about things happening. I don't know if you saw this yet, but, ah. Michigan Democrat Senator Gary Peters has announced he is not running for reelection in 2026, leaving that seat to be an open contested seat with no incumbent in the 2026 elections. That being a state that President Trump won quite handily, frankly, in a host of, viable Republican potential candidates. There, Tudor Dixon, who just almost unseated Gretchen Whitmer there, newly elected Republican Congressman Mike James. Is in the area. you have a host of people who will vie for that seat. but they are there. And then you also have. I mean, this is. Man you want to talk about, hot off the presses. I mean, President Trump is. You can't. There has to be another metaphor. You know, hitting the ground running ain't going, ain't. Ain't gonna get it. So you have his announcement that several career. Career DC elite, including DOJ officials, they've been terminated. You have one Phyllis Fong, who was the Inspector General for the US Department of Agriculture. President Trump fired her. She had to be escorted today by M Security because she refused to leave. She pulled. She pulled the. She pulled the J hood. And I'm telling you, I ain't going nowhere. Cause DC Is the best thing that I ever known. Telling you, no way. President Trump got the security guards and said, phyllis Fong, you're fired. Pack your things, get your hat, your coat, and get on out the door. Folks, these people are refusing to leave. And not only that, we're going to get to the word of God, but when I saw this, I'm telling you, I'm minding my business. I'm in D.C. trying to get things going on the legal front, and then I see on the social media, Selena. Selena Gomez, the actress.
Abraham Hamilton III: I. Look, I've been upset before, okay? I've been angry. I have never once thought I. I am so upset. Bobby. How's my lighting? I'm so angry. Please log into my Instagram, please. I'm so disturbed, I can't be bothered to do. Not that account, Bobby. The other account. Come on, man, stick with me. My people. I'm like your people. Ma', am, you were born in Texas. What are you talking about? And my thoughts immediately. I gotta get some hammer pants. That's what I thought. Are you kidding me? You're not even paying attention to who's being deported. You're not even paying attention. And then. Oh, man, what a revelation. Press Secretary Levitt is being asked, I thought the Trump administration was going to prioritize criminal aliens. She said, they are. We are. But what about the aliens? Criminal, ma', am, if they've entered our country illegally, they are, by definition criminals. It's a federal misdemeanor to enter the country illegally. It's only a civil violation to overstay your visa. But to enter our country illegally is a criminal violation. And why. How are we on that point? I've told you, I told you guys that the birthright citizenship argument is not Even an argument. The two components for citizenship. Natural born or born, citizens born or naturalized in the United States of America, sovereign territory and subject to the jurisdiction thereof. Key words, subject to the jurisdiction thereof. If you have violated our laws to enter into our sovereign territory, you are, by very virtue of your status, not subject to our jurisdiction. Because we, as United States of America, have a way for aliens to enter our country legally. There's a difference between aliens and illegal aliens. Illegal aliens, those who have breached our national borders illegally, are, by very virtue of their conduct, refusing to subject themselves to the jurisdiction of our nation. So you cannot breach our laws upon entrance and then have a child in our nation and say, my child is automatically a citizen of. Of your fair and fine nation because I have birthed them on your territory. That's just a non sequitur. And it's something you search the history that immediately after the passage of the 14th Amendment, for nearly 100 years, it wasn't even a conversation. Because everybody understands that it's one thing to be within the sovereign territory of the United States of America and an entirely separate thing to be subject to the jurisdiction of our land. Oh, man, I got a lot to get to. Ain't got much time.
We must steward this season in our nation's history wisely
Let's get to the word of God. Numbers, chapter 16. Numbers, chapter 16. And this is a picture. And I have been pressing us to consider that God has blessed our nation with a reprieve. We must steward this season in our nation's history wisely. And in particular, I'm appealing to our eternal family members that we understand, like the sons of Issachar, the time that we're in and know what we are to do. Numbers, chapter 16. Just to give you a bit of the context, this is where initially, I'm sorry. Numbers, chapter 16, verses 46 through 48. I didn't even give the verse reference. Numbers, chapter 16, verses 406 through 48. This is the account in Scripture where Korah, initially the alliance of rebels consisted of Korah, Dathan Abiram and Own. All right? And ultimately, you saw, Own kind of faded out of that whole scenario. The simple reality. Korah, as a Levite, felt froggy. It was like, who is you, Moses? He didn't say, who are you? He said, who is you? You know, like he from the. Like he from Gert Town somewhere. Who is you, Moses? Who said, you are the one who should be able to, dictate to us as if you are God's chosen leader, which he clearly was. The Lord ended up dealing with them, and then in the latter part of this chapter, the very next day, you see, some of the concern spreads. When I say concern, rebellion, sympathy is employed by many in the camp of the Israelites. But I want you to see this one picture in particular, which I believe gives a visual depiction of what the Lord desires for us in this time of reprieve that God has given us. The very next day, the contingent of Israelites grumble against Moses, even after witnessing what happened to Cora, Dathan and Abiram. And then in verse 46, this is what transpires thereafter. And Moses said to Erin, said to Erin, because when the rebellion spreads, the plague breaks out amongst the people of the Israelites. In verse 46, number 1646. And Moses said to Erin, take your censer, put fire on it from off the altar and lay incense on it and carry it quickly to the congregation and make atonement for them, for wrath has gone out from the Lord. The plague has begun. So Erin took it, as Moses said, and ran into the midst of the assembly. And behold, the plague had already begun among the people. And he put on the incense and made atonement for the people. And he stood between the dead and the living, and the plague was stopped. This is what I want you to see. The plague is broken out. Bodies are dropping. All right. Moses instructs Erin as the high priest, take your censer. Rush into the fray. Rush into the fray. Make atonement for the people. The scripture records that where Erin stood, the plague stopped. Erin stood as dividing line between the dead and the living. Instance. All throughout the Hebrew scripture has. Has been representative of. Of prayer and praise throughout the Hebrew scripture. But the Lord, through Moses, dispatched Erin to serve as a vehicle through which his living intercession served as a dividing line between death and life. The phrase is often presented, can one man make a difference? And encourage everybody to listen to the program Friday, because I'm going into a bit more detail about this.
Joseph Parker: America cannot be made great solely through electoral politics
God has given us a reprieve. There are a lot of things that are happening with breakneck pace through the federal government at this stage. I've urged caution before. However, executive orders are not a manner of sustaining government long term. However, first of all, you have to bring the nation back to a stasis of sanity to help us recover from the Biden administration's years. That's the first thing. secondarily, the momentum following these executive orders will set the course for the populace to see man. These things are working and give Congress members courage to make lasting a lot of the initiatives that right now have happened via executive fiat. But I want to tell you plainly. America cannot be made great solely through electoral politics, solely through governmental policies. Government has a role to play, no doubt about it. But the bulk of what is necessary for the United States of America has to transpire through her people. More particularly, what has to happen for the United States of America has to come through the Lord's bride. The Scripture is clear that the Lord invested His body in the earth. At the times and places that he's determined by divine providence to be salt and light, he has deposited his body to be the pillar and ground of truth. Much of, what has transpired and what must transpire requires, all hands investment, all hands on deck investment by the bride of Christ. Aaron's function here is a demonstration of living intercession. Can one person make a difference? Aaron's investment, as being dispatched by God through Moses, served as a vehicle through which it was a dividing line between life and death. Government can do only what government can do. The genius of the nation, or should I say the genius that I would argue that the Lord inspired the Founding Fathers to implement. For our nation is one where the people have the freedom to function as bearers of God's image, as his recipients, or as recipients, I should say, of his delegated authority. I wanted to present this Scripture to you so that you could have a picture of what living intercession looks like. That God, through you, will dispatch you to be a vehicle through which, under his authority, owned by his grace, empowered by His Spirit, to serve as a dividing line between death and life. We have got to be proponents of his commission. We have got to be his hands and feet. And here's the key. Similar to the principle that Nehemiah articulated, the whole wall of Jerusalem was able to be constructed in 52 days by each family manning the lane in front of their homes. God is not requiring you to. To fix the whole world, to change the whole world. He is requiring you to be his hands and feet in your world where he has deposited you. It is incumbent upon you and me to take full responsibility for the scope and the breadth and the width of influence that God has afforded us. Whether it's something that is lights, camera, action before the nation to see, or whether you are one who labors in what the world would describe as anonymity. But I'll tell you, there's no such thing as anonymity in God's kingdom because he has the books of recorded human history.
Joseph Parker: A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker Love always gives. And we're all called to a lifestyle of love. One of, if not the most loving things you and I can do is share the gospel with a world that desperately needs to hear it. So one of the ways whereby we live a life of love is living a life and a lifestyle of sharing the gospel as we go. So a part of walking in love, walking in the wisdom and the power of love, is knowing that, yes, if you're a believer, then it's your responsibility to be a bright and bold witness for the Lord Jesus Christ, sharing the gospel as the Holy Spirit directs us. Sharing the gospel because that helps address the biggest need of the world. Every human being's greatest need is the need to know Jesus Christ. So one of the ways whereby we live a life of love is living a life and a lifestyle of sharing the gospel as we go.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Shining light into the darkness. This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.
Abraham Hamilton III welcomes Dr. Robert Gagnon to the Hamilton Corner
Abraham Hamilton III: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner. Abraham Hamilton III here. I am delighted to have on the program with me a man who I have revered and just, I've been able to glean wisdom from. I have, just, been blessed by his work, his ministry for several years, and then I had the privilege of meeting him in person this past December. I'm speaking of none other doctor than Dr. Robert Gagnon, who is a visiting scholar at Wesley Biblical Seminary in Ridgeland, Mississippi. And he has taught previously at Middlebury College, Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, and Houston Christian University. He has degrees from Dartmouth College, his bachelor's a Harvard Divinity School, a master's there, and Princeton theological seminary, a PhD from there. He's published a number of works, especially on the Bible and LGBTQ issues, including the Bible and homosexual practice, which I cannot recommend to you enough because it is a go to resource for me on these issues. So I commend them to you and our audience to utilize them as well. Dr. Gagan, thank you for joining me here on the Hamilton Corner.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: So I'm so glad to be on your program, Abraham.
Abraham Hamilton III: Oh, I'm telling you, the pleasure is certainly, certainly mine. It was a pleasure getting to meet you in person in December, this past December, to where, you just, you really blessed me. the plethora of things you said blessed me. But the one I will never forget is when you articulated God's wisdom in responding to the pharisees in Matthew 19 concerning marriage and how the Lord, before getting to the interaction between husbands and wives, affirmed the creation mandate, he making them both male and female in addressing that. So I Hope to get to that, in the course of our conversation. But right now, what I want to introduce our conversation to the audience here with, is the piece you wrote for the American Spectator.
You write about President Trump's proclamation that there are only two sexes
The headline or the subject line, I should say for your piece is Trump's fidelity to his election promise, in which you, in my estimation, properly highlight something that it alone affirms. The election from this past fall. and President Trump's proclamation that there are only two sexes. I know a lot of times popular he says gender, and you get into that in your piece. but you wrote so profoundly about this and I just want to walk through the piece kind of systematically. Why do you think President Trump's action here, this one action, as you say in your piece, justifies the outcome of the 24. 2024 election?
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Well, let me preface by saying also, Abraham, since we, m. Agreed to do this presentation, two other, executive orders have come down relating to transgenderism. I just want to note that at the beginning, before moving to that, which is that, we have the, executive order that happened, on Monday, about transgenders in the military, and then we have an executive order that came down yesterday, prohibiting the chemical and surgical mutilation of children.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yes.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: So those we can also add to the, to the general discussion. This is, you know, sometimes we just think Trump, who's not really, not really a born and bred conservative in many respects. And this is the thing, this is highlighting the irony of God here. Yet he has become the instrument by God to do what other conservatives have not been able to achieve. Extraordinary. All credit and glory to God.
Abraham Hamilton III: Amen.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: And the reason why this is so important and why it justifies a vote for Trump is that I think this is the biggest issue that we have been facing over the last several years. I mean, this extends even beyond the issue of gay marriage and homosexual practice, because this is cutting even more drastically at, ah, any objective biological notion of what a male and a female is. And it's doing great harm to women.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: In terms of their private spaces, in terms of their sports, which creates a certain amount of danger to them. When you have men playing with women in contact sports, and it's really redefining and redefining subjectively the very understanding of male and female so that it has no definition. How can you say that there's anything more important to society than that? Because the interaction of male and female in society is the most basic and important element of social interactions. The very fabric of society itself depends on it. And if we can't even speak the truth about that, and we're indoctrinating children into what can only be called trans insanity, where there is no reliable definition of male and female, then you are basically undercutting the matrix of society itself. This isn't just like, you know, where we spend our money, the issue of inflation, even issues like, the illegal immigration problem across the southern border, all these are problematic. But there's nothing more problematic than this when you can end up by chemically castrating and surgically mutilating children, putting males and female restrooms and locker rooms and sports and shelters and prisons all the way across the board. This is a tremendous problem for society. And now here we have Trump coming along, doing whatever he can with all the power of the presidency behind him to alter that drastic course. Extraordinary.
Abraham Hamilton III: You're absolutely right. And what you're articulating literally is an assault on reality. You know, if, you know, Francis Shavers coined the phrase having one's feet firmly planted in midair. You know, how can we have any semblance of society, if we have no grasp on reality? You know, if reality is limit, can be reduced to the subjective whims of the fallen human heart, then it's like you've lost a game before the whistles even started. You know, and this is something that I would describe as, cultural demolition. Men understand you have people like Georgie Lukaks and others. Georgie Lukaks is the full mentor of a critical theory in its application broadly to where he literally coined the term cultural terrorism. To accomplish this very thing, to deprive mankind of the capacity to have a grasp on reality as a means of social revolution. And contrary to what many people might assert, this attack on reality also undermines the authority of Scripture and, and is simultaneously an attack on the gospel. And your articulation of it being the most important thing that a, government figure and the government in total can address is not hyperbolic. It really is not hyperbolic. It is an accurate assessment. And with the flurry of activity happening with the federal government, which I'm grateful for, it's easy to miss the significance of this moment, which is why I wanted to have you on to discuss it. yeah.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: And if I might add, too, if we just think about what the creation texts teach us in Genesis 1 and in Genesis 2, which, as you know, you alluded to it earlier, so important for Jesus's understanding of sexual ethics, he immediately goes Back to Genesis 1:27, male and female, he made Them, which is integrated immediately with the creation of human beings in God's image and likeness. Right. And then we have Genesis 2:24, 2:21-24, about the creation of woman and the, the, the whole matrix of marriage that a man may become joined to the, to a woman and the two become one flesh. For Jesus, this is the foundation of all of sexual ethics. And think about what issues that impinges on politically when you think about human beings being created in God's image and likeness. Right. The image bearing of human beings. Well, that certainly connects up with abortion. Right. Which is the taking of human life made in God's image.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yes.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: But also the fact that that image bearing coalesces with God's creation of male and female. right. Now, now God has created all animals, pretty much a couple exceptions, Male and female. Right. But only in the case of the human creation is that creation as male and female integrated with being made in God's image. As a way of saying that what we do sexually can either enhance or efface that image bearing, depending how we respond. You see how critical it is.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yes.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Bearing God's image and being made male and female, that's, that's a critical part, probably the most critical part of the human dimension. And again, the essential biological nature of the sexes.
Genesis 2:21 and 24 says we are sacral architecture
Now people can talk about other forms of sexuality, but the only intentional creation on God's part, the only deliberate design on God's part, not affected by sin.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Is the creation of male and female, man and woman. And you see how that is pictured in Genesis 2. you know that word that they often render ribs, selah, singular, selaim plural, he takes from the rib of Adam, actually better rendered side. That term. Everywhere else in the Hebrew Bible, selah is used what? Once it's used for the side of a hill. Everywhere else, about 33 other times it's used for the side of a piece of sacral architecture, the Ark of the Covenant, the portable tabernacle, the Solomonic sides of the Solomonic temple, the sides of the eschatological temple in Ezekiel. And it's a way of saying, similar to what Genesis 1 does in integrating being made male and female with being made in God's image. What Genesis 2:21 and 24 does is say that we are sacral architecture.
Abraham Hamilton III: Come on.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: In God's design of us as male and female. And so taking aside from the Adam or original human, that emphasis on extracting from that human aside and creating out of that side a woman so that thereafter the marital union between a man and a woman is not only a joining or union of the two into one, but it is a reunion of what was originally indivisible. And this is two halves of the sexual spectrum, male and female. Right. Each, each sex only one half of the sexual spectrum. When they unite in marriage, they form an integrated sexual whole that is not to be tampered with.
Abraham Hamilton III: Come on.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: By society. That is absolutely bedrock.
Abraham Hamilton III: Amen.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Absolutely foundational. And the whole notion now homosexual practice is a great threat to that. Graver still is transgenderism because it completely eliminates any normative, objective, biologically based definition of male and female. And not only that, but the other ramification here is all the threat that that poses to our civil liberties, our freedom of speech and the free expression of religion.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Right. So that the state is moving in a direction where they can take your child out of your home if you, if you do not decide to affirm their so called transition to the other sex.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yes.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Right, yes. Basically charge you with child abuse.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yes.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: For not going along with it. And promote that chemical castration and surgical mutilation of your child against your wishes. Can. And then if you don't, in the workplace, if you don't use the mandatory trans pronouns, we're heading in that direction and already there in some localities and states, then you can lose your, lose your job. Right. If you don't call a man a woman or a woman a man. So you see how it impinges on so many facets of society. The family, the church, employment, the speech in the public sphere, everything gets affected by it.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yes, yes, you're absolutely right.
When Jesus is questioned about marriage, he affirms this foundational concept
And we have a couple minutes left in this segment and you've already done it, but I just want to invite you to do it here to place a punctuation on this, that it's so foundational. and you shared this in D.C. in December. We were there that when Jesus is questioned about marriage, before he gets into the interaction between the only viable candidates for marriage, he affirms, this foundational, as you mentioned, sacrosanct, imago day ness, if you will, of maleness and femaleness. Would you just begin to speak to that? And if we need to carry it over to the next segment, we will do so. But would you share that with our audience here?
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Yes. Very important to understand. You know, a lot of people say, well, Jesus didn't speak to homosexual practice or transgenderism. Well, not directly. He didn't have to speak to it directly. He knew what his scriptures said about it, in the scriptures of ancient Israel. And there is absolutely no ambiguity there whatsoever. And there is no Jew in his time in first century Palestine or in the Diaspora for that matter, outside of Palestine who's questioning that. So there's no point for him going around and saying, don't have sex with the same sex. Don't try to transition to the opposite sex. Right? Nobody's advocating advocating it. Nobody's doing it. But what he does do on the positive side of things is establish a male female requirement or prerequisite for sexual ethics. Right. There's two sides of a coin here. One is you can say no homosexual practice, no transgenderism. That's the negative version of it. The positive version is that there is a biologically based male female requirement for all sexual activity, which they can only be genuine, valid sexual activity in the context of marriage. And Jesus's viewpoint, that's what he's going for. So what he's. One has to ask when he says, when he's talking about just the question of divorce and remarriage, which incidentally has implications as well for polygamy in ancient Israel, because polygamy, is easier to prohibit than remarriage after divorce, because it's worse. So when Jesus is prohibiting remarriage after divorce, he's prohibiting polygamy as well. We can talk about maybe exceptions to remarriage.
Abraham Hamilton III: Let me stop you right there, because the disrespectful music has started. You know, that's. The bumper music is so disrespectful because we are having such a vibrant conversation. Folks, I want to ask you to share this show with your friends and loved ones. It's so vital that we understand these foundational concepts and why this is probably the most important thing that the Trump administration has done to date. Because it's so foundational to who God has made us to be. It's so foundational to what society is. And as our friend Dr. Renton Rathman has told us, a true biblical worldview is understanding God's world from God's perspective. Streaming.AFA.net has now become AFA Stream, and you can find it at stream.AFA.net you see, we removed the letters ing. Our experts have determined that eliminating those three keystrokes multiplied over hundreds of thousands of AFA Stream visits could reduce the national debt and maybe increase the gross domestic product. AFA stream, formerly streaming.afa.net improvements to the economy are purely theoretical.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: the Hamilton quarter podcast and one minute commentaries are available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Quarter on American Family Radio.
Abraham Hamilton III welcomes Dr. Robert Gagnon to the Hamilton Corner
Abraham Hamilton III: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton III. Here my guest is Dr. Robert Gagnon. And before we went to the break, Dr. Gagnon, you were explaining, why it's, it's so, instructive for us when Jesus was queried about marriage in Matthew 19, that he began by affirming, the maleness and femaleness that God established as the only viable participants in the marital union. And you were explaining why that was so pivotal and necessary to have this entire conversation. So if you would please pick up where we left off.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: The reason why Jesus begins his discussion in, in Mark 10 and parallel to Matthew 19 on divorce and remarriage with male and female, he made them in Genesis 1:27 is because Jesus is telling his hearers to think about God's intentionality in creation. What does God do? He creates two primary sexes, male and female. Doesn't create the intersex, doesn't create anything else, just male and female. This is pre fall pre the introduction of sin into the world. How many sexes are involved in male and female? Well, quite obviously two to sexual binary, right? Yep. Now Jesus says that foundation of God's intentional creation of a sexual binary is the basis for arriving at a conclusion about number. How many people ought there to be in a sexual union, whether at any one time, polygamy or serially across time in a revolving door of divorce and remarriage? How many should there be? Well, let's see. How many sexes did God deliberately design as sexual counterparts? 2.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: So how many people do you think ought to be in a sexual union lifelong? Two. once you bring together the two halves of the sexual spectrum, male and female, into an integrated sexual whole, a third party or more becomes neither necessary nor desirable. And you know what further that means is the male female requirement for sexual relations is not just one among many sexual standards. It is the foundation upon which the entire superstructure of sexual ethics is built. M that means the worst thing that you can do sexually in a consensual interhuman relationship.
Abraham Hamilton III: Is.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Treat oneself as transgender or have sex with a member of the same sex. M those are regarded in Scripture as and affirmed by Jesus as the most severe consensual into human sexual offenses. Now, in putting it that way, I left out pedophilia and I left out bestiality. Those aside, this is worse than anything else between humans that is consensual. So for human beings to pull the rug out from under that edifice of sexual ethics is to destroy the whole.
Abraham Hamilton III: which is the objective ultimately of Satan, which walks about as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, which gives the indication that that devouring takes place with a level of human consent to it.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Yeah. Now we think because our culture has so saturated us with the LGBTQ ideology, coercively, forcibly, we've lost this sense, this natural sense of revulsion at behaviors that we should be revolted in. And now people tend to think, well, gee, I hope this doesn't lead to something worse like polyamory or consensual incest. You know what? Those things are not worse in God's eyes. The worst thing has already been approved of, by much of society. The transgenderism, the homosexual practice. The approval of polyamory and adult consensual incest has to follow logically from those two things, because polyamory is a violation of the principle of number two ness, which itself is predicated on the tunis of the sexes, which culture is now trying to eviscerate. And incest. What's wrong with incest? Too much uber sameness, structurally speaking. And their embodied existences. Too much kinship identity, not enough otherness. While the sense of excessive structural embodied sameness is greater in the case of homosexual unions than it is in the case of incest, at least incestuous unions can still procreate, albeit with higher procreative abnormalities indicating a degree of complementarity on the sexual level. Same sex unions can't procreate at all, simply not because the equipment have malfunctioned, but because they are not designed that way.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Institutions showing their complete incompatibility sexually.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: And excessive sameness. So if we say ick to incest, it should be even more so in the case of homosexual practice. We're seeing a man dressed as a woman. So we have to. Our values have been inverted even in Christian society. Yes, and we have to get back to what the scriptural matrix is.
Abraham Hamilton III: And the scripture has already told us the mechanism for that. Inversion. Romans 1:18 is not that mankind is deprived of an institutional awareness of this. It's not that. It's a complete ignorance even. It's that men suppress the truth by wicked conduct. Hyper exposure and hyper stimulation is to make the abominable and abnormal normalized to where we become nose blind because we live in the locker room, so we don't know what locker room smells. That should be revulsive to us because we've been living in the locker room.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Yeah, that is exactly Paul's argument, in Romans 1, 1832, when he talks about human beings suppressing the truth about God accessible to them in the material structures of creation. It's not just that all people sin. Yes, that's true, and it should be obvious. But it's that all human beings suppress the truth and favor the lie is they're being judged by God not because they sinned and didn't know, but rather because they sinned and knew. Even in the absence of the direct revelation of Scripture, they have the indirect revelation of the material structures of creation that God made.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yes.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: So he first pinpoints idolatry. Of course, it's absurd to worship a statue made in the image of a human being, or worse, an animal, and pretend that that's the high God that created the expanse of the cosmos. Ridiculous. But now what does he pick? This is like an extended vice list. Paul has lots of vice list. Don't do the following things or you won't inherit the kingdom of God. Always. One, two in either order in those vice lists is idolatry and sexual immorality.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yes.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Sometimes sexual immorality first, sometimes idolatry. More often idolatry first, followed by sexual immorality. So that's what Paul is doing when he gets to Romans 1:24 to 1:27. He's talking about sexual immorality right after idolatry. And which offense does he single out among, sexually immoral offenses that constitute a deliberate suppression of the truth of God, accessible in the material structures of creation. Same sex intercourse. Why is that the most obvious? Because it's obvious. The design of God is embedded in maleness and femaleness. The anatomy, the physiological function of procreation, and even the psychology of male and female. We have a compatibility between the two. Two sexual counterparts. It's clearly clear that one fits the other. And to reject that is a deliberate suppression of the truth. Who can say, who can say, Abraham, that they're not aware of the fact that male and female are designed as sexual counterparts.
You've got to be heavily indoctrinated to reject obvious transgender reality
You can't see that. You don't know that. You know, I have jokingly sometimes say it takes a lot of years of education, Abraham, to suppress that truth. You got to be heavily indoctrinated. I shouldn't say education. It's really a lot of years of indoctrination. Yes, you've got to be heavily indoctrinated to reject that obvious reality. And that's why Paul singles out same sex intercourse among all sexually immoral offenses. At that point, it's precisely because you see how obvious this is. M. You see how they're suppressing the truth about creation here. And some people say, well, this has got nothing to do with creation, really. Look at Genesis 1. What is the most important creative act of God in Genesis 1? It's the creation on the sixth day of mankind.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah. On the sixth day of human beings.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Made in his image.
Abraham Hamilton III: Made in his image. And to just again, run a highlighter over this point, the demonic d deception intrinsic to transgenderism. And this is why there's even a schism within, you know, the LG and bees versus the teas. Because the lie of transgenderism is that there is no such thing as a tunis. To where transgender ideology finds the concept of tunis, even in the rebellious homosexual concept, as being institutionally incompatible to the notion of transgenderism, which says there is no maleness or femaleness, which is why the fluidity is embraced, because it's a denial at foundational level of the reality of that Tunis that you've been talking about.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: That's right. Because if you can't. If you don't have an objective, biological, reproductive basis on which to, talk about what a male and what a female is, then all you're left is subjective self understanding, unmoored to biological realities. And at that point, you can only derive circular definitions of what a male and a female is.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yes.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Well, what's a female? You know, Matt Wallace has become famous over this, Right. In his film on that.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Asking people, what is a woman? Well, a woman is a person who thinks he or she is a woman.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Well, that's a circular definition. You haven't told me what a woman is, though.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: They're not able to define it. You've got. So you have this massive house of cards that are being built or nothing. Or is what you talked about this from C.S. lewis. This, you know, what did you put it. Put it as the foundation in the air.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah. Feet firmly planted in midair. Yeah. Francis, exactly. Yeah. C.S. lewis. Yeah.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Nothing to back it up.
Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah. And we even have. And this is just, you know, indicative of the depth of the depravity. This is why I've been saying on my show here, God has granted us a reprieve. Government has its role, but it cannot do everything that's necessary to make America the shining city on the hill that I believe God would have us to be. But we have a lifetime tenure. U.S. supreme Court justice who has confirmed, after stating an official hearing, that she is incapable or unwilling to articulate what a woman is. How can you be qualified to navigate the justiciable issues of our nation if you are institutionally incapable or unwilling to state something as foundational to mankind as what a woman is?
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Right. And underscoring, yes, A, she's a woman and can't define what a woman is, and B, she's going to be a Supreme Court justice, Ketanji Brown, and she cannot define what a woman is. This is absolutely extraordinary. But of course, as you said, as you, you indicated also, she probably could define it, but only by this circular definition. A woman is. Whoever thinks she is a woman is a woman. But she doesn't realize that by doing that, she's actually harming the legal protections that have been given women in the United States, which is precisely what was addressed in this first executive order about transgenderism.
Dr. Gagnon: Congress needs to pass some of President Trump's executive orders
Abraham Hamilton III: We have two minutes left. If, if possible, can you kind of highlight for the audience here some of these executive orders, and I guess in kind of staccato bullet point fashion, just say why they're so important that President Trump has issued these. And my prayer is that Congress will find the courage to, to establish, a permanency to these things that President Trump has initiated via executive order.
Doctor Robert Gagnon: Yeah, well, I think the Republicans would, but the Democrats, to a person will not. And the problem is that in the Senate, because of the possibility of a filibuster, you have to be able to have the most of the essential three fifths in order to close out that filibuster cloture. And that's going to take 60 votes. And for that to happen, we're going to need eight Democrats from the Senate and, to join in, in this sanity view of sexuality. But they'll never do it, which is why, unfortunately, we're left with executive orders at this point. So the first executive order that he passed, that he put forward, implemented Right. on the same day of his, swearing in, is one called the Defending Women from Gender Ideology Extremism, and Restoring Biological Truth to the federal government. And what that's doing is simply saying they're only going to be. There's going to be only two sexes as far as the federal government is concerned, male and female. And it's going to be biologically based, based on the fact that females produce egg cells and males are capable of producing sperm cells. Okay. Straightforward definition.
Abraham Hamilton III: And from conception, he affirms that this conception. From conception, which is remarkable to consider that he's simply underscoring that he is the most pro life, pro president in modern American history. Dr. Gagnon, I know you can hear this disrespectful music. We're going to have to have you back on to talk about this because we're just in the first week or so in the Trump administration. There's a lot more to happen. Thank you for joining us here in the program. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
