Dr. Jessica Peck prescribes Hope for Healthy Families on American Family Radio
Hello and welcome to the doctor nursemama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite part of the afternoon, even a Monday afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And our prescription for hope today is finding hope in God who reigns over heaven and earth. Many of you may be looking at all of the news headlines that are going on and thinking, okay, where is God in all of this? Well, I will tell you one thing. He is not pacing the throne room of heaven saying, oh, no, what next? We worship a God who is sovereign and I encourage you to turn your cares into prayers and to pray about anything that is bothering you today. And we're going to, we have a really exciting topic we're going to talk about today, something that's a little unusual. We're going to talk about angels. But, but I'm going to leave you on a cliffhanger right there because my producer is reminding me you should see all that goes on behind the scenes, how she makes sure to get my attention, say all the things we need to say. I need to tell you about Operation Christmas Child that is going on right now. I took my boxes in on Sunday. I dropped them off at the distribution center. This is an opportunity for you to pack a shoebox to send to a child somewhere in the world. You get a code and you pay $10 to to ship it online. And in most cases, not all, but in a lot of cases, you get to follow that box and see where it goes. Operation Christmas Child is one of my favorite radio days that we do in the year. And so upcoming we will have testimony from children who were impacted by Operation Christmas Child. You can go to samaritans purse.org occ and find out how to get a box, where to pack a box. It does not cost a lot of money. You don't have to spend a lot on this. And there are lots of guides for creative giving in there. But I encourage you to do this with your family. For my kids when they were younger, I loved to pack a box, have them pack a box for a child that was their age. So if they're a girl age 10 to 14, I'll have them pack a box for a girl age 10 to 14, pray over those items. It's really very perspective shifting and really can make you have a heart of gratitude for all that. We are so blessed to have and to bless children who don't have that. So don't forget about Operation Christmas Child. But as we're approaching Christmas, their angels are a central part of the Christmas story. They are essential part of decorations. We see them all the time. And it is a topic that fascinates believers. And honestly, skeptics, when we talk about angels, I know a lot of you already are curious thinking, where is this going to go? But they appear in the Bible from Genesis all the way through revelation. They show up at creation, at the birth of Christ, at the resurrection, around the throne of God. Yet if most of us are honest, what we think we know about angels comes more from pop culture, sentimental art, or social media than from scripture, from the word of God. And our guest here today is, is to help us correct that and to help us guide our families. And hey, kids, have questions about some tough spiritual things, and I'm going to guess that some of you are going to get some questions about angels. And today we have Melissa Spoelstra. She is a sought after Bible teacher, a speaker, an author of multiple lifeway women's studies. You may have taken one of her studies before, and her newest one is called Angels Finding Hope in God who Reigns Over Heaven and Earth. And she's inviting us not into angel obsession. Okay. But into deeper confidence in the God of angel armies. Now, if you're guessing now, some of you are thinking, am I going to play that song? Well, you'll just have to stay tuned and find out. But our God rules and reigns, and he is actively at work in the seen and unseen realms. Melissa, I am so delighted to have you here today. Thank you for joining us to talk about such an interesting thing.
Melissa Spoelstra: I'm so excited. I love talking about this and about how really angels are always pointing back to the purpose and power of God. So it's going to be a conversation about angels, but also about Yahweh Sabaoth the God of angel armies.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, I cannot wait to hear this. Well, before we dive into that, Melissa, introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about your life, how you came to know the Lord and how he called you to this ministry and put it on your heart to share with us about angels.
Melissa Spoelstra: Sure. So I grew up in a little town in East Texas, and I was one of those kids who loved those Gold Star chicks sticker charts and was very much about trying to do the right things. And so when I first understood the gospel, it, was very, very good to hear that it's not about earning God's love. It's not about checking off boxes. It's, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. And so, I was probably about 9 years old when I first understood that very simple message that, that Christ died for me and that I was a sinner and that I needed then just continue to grow in my faith. And ended up at the Moody Bible Institute with a degree in theology. then married a pastor. We joke and call it the Moody Bridal Institute. That's where I met. Met my husband Sean, who's the pastor. And so I spent a lot of years, helping my husband in ministry as well as raising four kids. I have a son and three daughters. And big news is, just two months ago, became a good. I'm going by Oma, but, first grandbaby. And so that is super, super exciting. but where this topic of angels came from, began writing Bible studies, really just because there were things I wanted to lead with the women in my studies that weren't out there. I've, written Bible studies on the book of Jeremiah. There was nothing like that out there on the Book of Numbers. And when it came to angels, it's, a little bit different than what I've written in the past. I tend to like to get in a book and camp there. But, this is a little different. It's a biblic theology. It's tracing a theme through from Genesis to Revelation, basically looking at, what can we. What does God reveal? There's over 300 mentions of angels in the Bible. And so for me, I was at my dad's memorial, service and heard someone make one of those comments that I bet a lot of y' all have heard. oh, God needed another angel. And I remember thinking, does that person think that you become an angel after you die? And I just started seeing angel, pictures, angel things. I started thinking about that comment. I was listening to some podcasts and theology podcasts that I enjoy where there was a lot of conversation about the supernatural realm. and I just began to realize that I didn't know that much about angels. I didn't have a very strong angelology. I don't know if you've ever considered your angelology. And I began to just say, is there? Would it be helpful to look at angels from Genesis to Revelation and see progressively what we learn about God himself in the context of angelology? And what I found is that a lot of times we think about God, hopefully, and we think about people because we're one of them, and we're surrounded by them. But we often forget what scholars call the excluded middle. And it's this whole category of angels. Some are fallen, some are not. So angels and demons and what is going on in the supernatural realm. And the Bible is a supernatural book. It's full of cosmic realities. And so that's, that's really the answer to your question of how I came to want to study angels.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Melissa, I have never heard the word angelology, but now as you're describing it, I am remembering that I have in fact questioned my angelology. I'm going to share with you a quick story from for myself as a mom, because there was a time I'm also a mom of four and one of my children was helping me with a garage sale, probably in early elementary school. And she was really great, she was very helpful and I needed some change. And so I said, hey, do you still have that $5 bill that you got for your birthday? And she said, yes. And I said, okay, if you go and get that for me, I'll give you this $10 and you can keep the change. Well, she was old enough to understand that that meant she was going to keep some money. So she ran in the house to get it. She didn't come out for a long time. Listen, I started to get concerned. I came in and she's sitting and bawling her eyes out, just crying hysterically. And I said, what's wrong? And she said, I can't find the $5. I said, oh, that's fine, that's okay, you know, we will find it. And she said, no, you don't understand. She said, I got on my knees and my. In the floor in my room and I prayed and I said, God, I know this $5 is not very important to you, but it's important to me. Would you please help me find it? She said, mom, I opened my eyes and there was an angel standing in front of me and handed me a five dollar bill. Well, Melissa, I had some thoughts about that.
Melissa Spoelstra: I'm sure you did.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I was thinking, okay, I don't. I had no idea how to respond to that. But it really forced in me a question because I thought, well, angels are in the Bible, so what do I believe about angels and how do we guide our kids? And that's one of the reasons why I really wanted to talk to you about this, because I think it's hard for us as parents to navigate some of those things that are supernatural, especially for kids who have a concrete understanding. And we're trying to tell them, you know, some concrete biblical truths. But also as you said, these cosmic supernatural things, there's a huge interest in that right now. I mean, I know if there's a Bible study on revelation, like people are going to gravitate towards that. People are reading their Bible more than ever. And yet we have biblical worldview declining. So I am going to just ask you to tell us all the theology things to help make sure that we're grounded in a way. So why do you believe that now is the time to talk about this? I mean, I can see kind of the, the angle here, but what do you as the urgency for learning about angels?
Melissa Spoelstra: I have looked at the statistics and I do see that interest in God and Bible sales, all of these things are up. And here's what I know. We do have an enemy. Scripture tells us we do and that we are supposed to be familiar with his schemes so that he will not outsmart us. And so I think there's never been a time if, if interest in God and interest in Christ is going to be on the rise, all the more will be forces of evil coming up against that because that's not what our enemy wants. And so I think, it's important to, to note that we can be prepared rather than be scared. I sometimes when I've mentioned that I'm doing this project on angels, a few women have been like, well, I don't want to give any airtime to the demonic forces or to those things and we should just ignore those. And I love what CS Lewis says that there are two dangers when it comes to this topic. One is that excessive unhealthy interest on the one side. But I think most of us are over on the other side where we just live as though they don't exist. We kind of have adopted an anti supernatural bias that came during the Enlightenment when logic and reason were so elevated. And so I think this is a really good time to go.
What do we need to know about how angels in the Bible relate to today
What does the Bible say and what does the Bible not say when it comes to these creatures?
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I think you're right and I think in popular culture we've kind of adapted it to a way that's comfortable. You might think of Clarence and It's a Wonderful Life, or maybe you think of the not so great, you know, John Travolta like as an angel, which was all kinds of problematic, right? But we see all kinds of angels represented in nativities. We see them over a creche at, at Christmas time. I mean there's all kinds of ways that you can see them. But what do we need to know about how angels in the Bible and what we learn about those biblically? How does that relate to our life today other than this kind of pitiful reflection and, and the two extremes that you've presented here?
Melissa Spoelstra: Right. Well, first of all, I think we want to be able to identify that misinformation. We want to say what is biblical and what is not biblical. And the reason that's so crucial is that, like I said earlier, angels are always pointing back to the power and the purposes of God. They are created by Him. I also think we want to know all that God has revealed in His Word. It's all useful for teaching, training, and equipping. And the reality is we're going to spend eternity alongside these creatures that, worshiping God. And so don't we want to know what it is that God has revealed about them? And so I kind of say, who are they? What do they do? And then what does that have to do with you? And I think there's so many things that have to do with us. And so I created an acronym that goes with the word angels that are kind of. Here are the main things that we see throughout the pages of Scripture about angels. And with each one kind of then making that application of, okay, what does that to do with you and me today? And how can we apply that?
Dr. Jessica Peck: I really appreciate that you're framing this as a Bible study. This isn't just like, oh, here, read this and just know. But it is no, like you said. How did you say that again? What were the three things? Who. What?
Melissa Spoelstra: When? Who they are. What. Yeah, now. Who they are, what they do, and what that has to do with you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah, who they are, what they do, and what that has to do with you. These are questions that families are grappling with. And I think it's a great opportunity for discipleship. And when we come back, we have a lot more to talk about. We'll talk about, what, what really do they have to do with our lives today? And how can we live with common confidence that God is in control of the supernatural realm? Because even thinking about that can make a lot of us feel a little anxiety. But we will unpack that with grace, with clarity, with kindness. And we'll be right back with more.
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Angels are one of the most misunderstood subjects in Christian culture
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Whom Shall I Fear (God Of Angel Armies) by Chris Tomlin: You hear me when I I call you are my morning song Though darkness fills the night, it cannot hide the light Whom shall I fear? You crush the enemy underneath my feet you are my sword and shield Though troubles linger still whom shall I fear? I know who goes before me I know who stands behind The God of angel armies is always by my side the one who reigns forever he is a friend of mine The God of angel armies is always by my side.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is whom shall I fear? God of angel Armies by Chris Tomlin. And that's exactly what we're talking about today. The God of angel armies. We're talking about a biblical understanding of angels. And angels are one of the most misunderstood subjects in Christian culture. They we, really rivaled only by heaven spiritual warfare. But culture gives us all kinds of interpretations of angels, from baby cherubs to beautiful angels that are floating on clouds. The phrase heaven gained another angel, as our guest shared with you earlier. And even within the church, there is confusion. And I know there are a lot of parents and grandparents out there who are trying to answer some difficult questions. And maybe, as our guest Melissa Spellstra said earlier, you're not up on your angelology. I know I wasn't. And if we don't understand who angels are biblically, then we risk building our beliefs about that, about what is in the Bible on sentiment instead of what is in Scripture. There is a lot of misconception and misunderstanding, misapplication, misattribution, misquoting of Scripture. That happens. And we're here today to clear that fog. And I'm talking to Melissa Spoelstra. She's the author of a Bible study from Lifeway called the Angels Bible Study. Find hope in God who reigns over heaven and, earth. And before the break, Melissa, you were just about to tell us about angels, who they are, what they do, and what that means for you. And I can't wait to dive into this acronym that you have as a preview of your Bible study.
Study of angels reminds us that angels worship a holy God
Take it away.
Melissa Spoelstra: Sure. So the, the A just stands for that angels adore God and they're worshiping Him. We see that all throughout Scripture. But I think what that has to do with and me is that just like the song we just heard, right, that if angels are worshiping God because he's so holy, hopefully that motivates you and I to recognize our, holy God who's worshiped by literally millions of angels is the same God that we worship. And I think holiness is one of those things we can lose sight of in the day to day and our culture with Buddy buddy Jesus. And so study of angels. One of the things that has to do with us is it reminds us that yes, the angels are holy, but they are worshiping a holy God. And so that brings us back to kind of that awe and wonder of the amazement of who this is that's sitting on the throne. then the N notifications, that's what their name means. The name angel in Hebrew is Malik, in, Greek is Angelos. That's where we get angel from. And that's one of their primary responsibilities. The word angel means messenger. And I think for you and I, we get a lot of notifications every day, probably on a little rectangle thing that, you carry in your pocket, your purse, your phone. It wants to notify you about new sales going on, how many likes you got, whether someone texted you. And so to look at scripture and recognize that often these notifications came in answer to prayer. And I can't help but think of your daughter's story that she prayed and God notified her. Hey, I'm real, I'm here. And I think God still wants to do that today. He has so many ways to notify us, primarily through His Word. But his word is chocked full of cosmic angel stories of him intervening in the affairs of men and women today And I. I just want to think briefly about Daniel. In chapters nine and ten, he encounters this angel, Gabriel. And what is Gabriel's message? What's the notification? Because these angel notifications, some of them are descriptive of something that happened that was specific for Daniel, and some of them are prescriptive. And we know that this is true for you and I today. This is what has to do with us. He told Daniel that he was precious to God and that God heard his prayers, and that the minute he prayed, God dispatched, an angel to come to him. Now, that angel was delayed for 21 days by the spirit power, Prince of Persia. That's a whole nother can of worms as we talk about spiritual warfare happening. But. But more than that, what I want us to remember, that what that has to do with that is that our prayers are heard in heaven. An angel was sent to notify Daniel. And. And that's true for us, too. And so the power that we need on a daily basis is associated with prayer. Not like a vending machine, but where you need power is where you need prayer. And the God of angel armies will sometimes, like he did for your daughter, send an angel. And then g. Oh, yep, keep going.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm taking notes. Yes, exactly.
Melissa Spoelstra: All right. The G angels guard God's boundaries. We see that, the cherubim, one of the angel mentions in Scripture. In Genesis, we see that the Tree of Life, they've eaten, they've sinned, and God sends a cherubim to guard the boundary. We see this all throughout Scripture. Certainly as God's people are leaving the wilderness, there's guardian angels there. Jesus even says things like, I. I, could send an angel right now to protect us. So we know they have this protective measure.
Do you have a personal guardian angel? I don't know
But I want to hit on something that's very culturally, discussed, and that's this idea of a personal guardian angel. And this is a question I get a lot, and here's my answer. Do you have a personal guardian angel? I don't know. I know that angels guard God's boundaries. There are two quick passages I want to reference that hint toward this guardian angel, but neither one of them is the center stage angels or the center stage. This concept of guardian angels, it's where, the children, Jesus is talking about to seek greatness, God's way, in Matthew, chapter 18. And one of the comments he makes is, don't ever look down on these little children, because their angels are always before my Father in heaven. there's another passage in the Book of Acts where an angel releases Peter from prison. I love this story because the church is praying for Peter and then they're shocked when their prayer is answered. We sometimes glorify the early church, like they had supersonic faith or something. But here we see they were praying, but when Peter actually showed up, and Rhoda the servant comes and tells them all, Peter's at the door. And they say, can't be Peter. God couldn't have answered our prayers. Peter's still in prison. It must be his angel. Right? And so there was this thought that not only did people have guardian angels, but maybe they looked like you, but those are really the only two places.
Is it possible that there are personal guardian angels or even territorial angels
And this is a caution I want to mention as we have a conversation about the supernatural. Much has been built on little when it comes to supernatural creatures. And so we want to just say, okay, is it possible that there are personal guardian angels or even territorial angels? they call that cosmic geography. there's. There are a few little hints here and there, but my answer to that is I don't know. But I do know that angels guard God's boundaries whenever he tells them to. I don't know if you want to make a comment on that before I jump into the e. I do, because.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I. I've heard a lot of stories of missionaries. I'm sure you have too, Melissa, who have just shared incredible stories. I mean, one in particular I'm remembering is, you know, praying at. There were this missionary family, and I'm sure there's many that are similar to this, but, you know, they were being physically attacked by, by soldiers, and. And yet they were afraid. They said they didn't attack, but they were afraid of the angels that they saw, but the family did not see. I'm sure you've heard many variants.
Melissa Spoelstra: I love that story. I know that exact story. It's in. It's in neither Billy Graham's book on Angels or Dr. David Jeremiah's book on angels. It's a well documented missionary story, by, you know, and so these things do happen. And, and the. They let what. In that particular story, they later met the people of that tribe that were going to attack them to know Christ. And they said, hey, that night a year ago, why didn't you come attack? And they're like, we tried to. There were these big white beings, soldiers, all around your house. And so I love that story. I'm glad you mentioned that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: So what do you think? What is the lesson, the takeaway for us as parents? Because I think, you know, do you pray For God to send angels to guard your kids. Like, what does that look like? How do we start to communicate this message to kids who may have some curiosity, but may also have some fear?
Melissa Spoelstra: That's a great question. And I will say I prayed and asked God to send angels when my kids were learning to drive, that angels around the car. Right. So, yes, but I found it fascinating. 300 mentions of angels in the Bible and none of these great men and women of God, including Daniel, Moses, Abraham, ever prayed and asked God to send an angel. And I found that curious. Here Peter's in prison. He didn't pray for an angel. Daniel's in the lion's den. It was an angel who shut the mouths of the lion. But it's never recorded. At least it doesn't mean they didn't do it. And as I just began to process and pray and talk to the Holy Spirit about that, what I found is that the great men and women in the scriptures seem less inclined to tell God how to do it. They communicate their needs. So I, They prayed for protection, but they kind of left it up to the sovereign king of glory, God of angel armies, to decide whether he would send an angel, whether he would send a spirit, whether he would intervene in some other cosmic way or some other very natural, logical way. And so I do think for you and me, we can pray for God to guard us and to guard our children. And our children can pray for protection, spiritual protection, physical protection, emotional protection, mental protection. We can pray for that. And I don't think it's wrong to ask God to send angels, but I think we can trust that his way is usually better even than our ideas.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You're so right. I'm doing a Bible study right now in the life of David. And you know, there's a moment in David's life where the Lord is going to punish him and he gives him a choice. And David says, I leave it up to you. you choose because you know what's best for me. And I think you're so right, Melissa. It's so hard for us. We want to control everything. And so having that perspective, just praying for protection, knowing that God will provide it in the way that he provides it.
There are 300 mentions of angels in the Bible, Melissa says
The other thing that, as we're halfway through this angels acronym that's really striking me is you. You've said it a few times now. 300 mentions of angels in the Bible. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that probably if. If you asked the average listener here to write 300 of those, they could maybe come up with 10. And you think, wait, are the angels in the Bible that much? 300. Can you tell us just a little bit more about that? And then we'll go back to your.
Melissa Spoelstra: Acronym, start reading, and you'll find it. But one of the things that was fascinating to me that I didn't know as I was reading these was that most of the time they come in the, in a human form of some sort. They actually. You mentioned the, the movie. And every time a bell rings, another angel gets its wings, right? Angels in the Bible don't actually have wings, unless we're talking about the seraphim and the cherubim And those two creatures, wings were covered with eyes. I've never seen that in a nativity play. I don't, I don't know about you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I don't think that that would go over well.
Melissa Spoelstra: No, I, I don't think so either. And so I, I think the more we read the Bible, the more we go, wow, there was an angel involved in Peter getting out of prison or, or even just the knife being stopped by Abraham when he went to sacrifice his son that was stopped by an angel. And so I think, think as we start to talk about it, I wonder, for listeners, as you get into your Bible or even listening to your sermons, you're going to go, wow. And I think the reason that we don't always think, oh, wow, 300 times is that angels do not take center stage. They're like the theme music in a movie, like Star Wars. When they show up on the scene, God is about to do something really cool. And so our focus tends to be on him, which is a good thing. But I do think that they're mentioned so often and have such a role in God's plan that we want to know as much as we can about them.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It's so true. And, probably the most famous, mention of the angels during the Christmas season is going to be the angels notifying the shepherds of the birth of Jesus. But when you read in that, it says the shepherds were sore afraid was the version that I learned. And that was really instructive to me. What do you have to say about that in Christmas? What is an opportunity that parents could take to talk about angels in that capacity?
Melissa Spoelstra: I think just to always point back to God that God is not scary. but I love how CS Lewis points as land. you know, that he's, he's great and we're in awe of him. And so that lesson for Me, with my children would be, look at God, that he is sending his angels. I mean, these majestic creatures that cause most people to be afraid. Daniel fainted when he encountered Gabriel, right. He had to actually get him up on his feet. So lot of times we see that. So there is something incredible and majestic about them. But to say that God wanted to announce the birth of the Messiah to shepherds, the outcasts of society. And so every angel message, yes, let's look at the angels. But let's always go, what are they telling us about God? They're telling us that he's holy, he's majestic, he's amazing, and he cares about the lowliest in society. What a great lesson for our children.
Dr. Jessica Peck: It is such a great lesson. And that goes back to exactly the lesson that you're giving us today, Melissa, and that the, the angels, acronym We've talked about adoring God, notifying us, using them as messengers, guarding and protecting us.
Melissa Spoelstra: What is the e. Everyone's favorite topic? Enacting God's judgment. But I do think there's a huge lesson here for me and you. I mean, we don't have to go far to see them enacting God's judgment. Passover. What? What? The people put blood on their doors so that the angel of death would pass over the door. We see, God's enemies that were coming up against his people. God sent an angel to wipe out 180,000 soldiers, to protect his people. But I, I have to go to the parable. Jesus told of the weed and the weeds. it talked about how weeds have been sown among the wheat, meaning that, that people that are, that are fake. You know, a weed kind of looks like the wheat, but it's not exactly. And they're sewn among us as believers. They're in our churches, in our neighborhoods. And someone asks Jesus, should we separate them? Should we pull the weeds? And he says, don't pull the weeds, weeds, because it will damage the wheat. And so it's not our job to try to go, you're good, you're bad, you're good, you're bad. We are to leave the labeling to the angels because Jesus goes on to say that the angels are coming at the end of the age with a sickle, and they will harvest the earth. I just read in my quiet time today and was blown away. I'm like, I don't remember this one. That, that when he, When Jesus returns, he's going to send the angels out to the far ends of the earth to find those whose hearts are his, that are his believers, and to bring them in. And so what this should motivate you and I to do is go, wow, judgment is coming. And the angels are part of that story. I and no one has to face this judgment because Jesus has invited everyone. God so loved the whole world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish. So that should motivate me, and it should motivate ourselves, children, to share this great news that God has invited us to not have to be in the weed pile, that we can be his secure wheat that are going to live forever with him. If we believe in our hearts, confess with our mouths that he is the Lord. And so to me, this. This idea of angels enacting judgment should just remind us.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I'm going to hold you right there, Melissa, because we are right at our next break. But you are not going to m want to miss it is because we're going to give you more angelology. When we come back. A, discipleship.
Joseph Parker: Minute with Joseph Parker. He who dwells in the secret place of the most high shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, he is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in him I will trust. Psalm 91, verses 1 and 2. In a perilous world, so many people are afraid they're fearful in a world where inner cities and many other communities are just simply dangerous places to be. We see the drug trafficking, human trafficking, muggings, murders, physical and sexual abuse. There is a place of safety in this world, and it's found in God. It's found in that secret place, that intimate relationship with God. No one can protect you like God can. But it's important for us to do our part to appropriate, to place ourselves in that secret place. Praying Psalm 91. Every day is a very wise thing for all believers to do. No one can protect you like God can.
Holy Forever by Chris Tomlin: Your name is the highest, your name is the greatest. Your name stands above them all. And the angels cry holy. All creation cries holy. You are lifted high. Holy. Holy forever.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Holy Forever by Chris Tomlin. M. Yep, we did have two songs by Chris Tomlin today, and I'm really not sorry about it because I love both of those songs. And it is related to what we're talking about today. We're talking about angels. Now. There are a lot of things that it can be difficult for parents to talk to their kids about, for grandparents to talk to their grandchildren about, especially if you have them in that age where questions are the currency, where they're asking questions all the time. And today we're talking to Melissa Spoelstra who has written a Bible study with Lifeway called Angels Bible Study. Find hope in God who reigns over heaven and earth. This is an eight session Bible study that helps you understand, as she said, who angels are, what they do and why that matters to you. And Melissa, as we're talking through an acronym that you've given and I want to make sure that we finish that. A, N, G, E, L, S. And you've talked about, about angels adoring God, which we just heard reflected in the song Holy Forever about the angels crying. That N is for notification, being a messenger. G is for guarding, giving his protection, God sending protection through angels. And E, as you said, which I'm going to laugh about for a long time. Everyone's favorite topic, enacting judgment but giving us that, that conviction to go out and share the gospel so that people are spared from that. Let's continue with the L. Pick it up there. Sure.
Melissa Spoelstra: Angels lead God's people. We see this again and again. One of my favorite places in scripture is Elijah has just had a big encounter and then has a real ministry low. And an angel comes and leads him and tells him, you need to eat some food and take a nap. I always say if an angel's going to lead me to do something, I really hope it's to eat some food and take a nap. but what this has to do with us is I look at Abraham. Abraham was a man who didn't always get it right. You know, at one point he's passing off his wife as his sister out of fear. But we see that Abraham grew in maturity and in confidence and his faith in God. Certainly he sacrificed his one and only son or was willing to. And an angel came and stopped his knife and provided the ram in the thicket. And then toward closer to the end of his life when his son Isaac is grown and he's finding a wife for his son Isaac, his servant, who I can so relate with. He tells his servant to go find a wife for Isaac back with his own people. And the servant is, what if, what if, what if, what if, what if I can't find him? And I think parents, we struggle with this a lot as parents with our kids. What if they can't, make the team? What if, what if this, what if that? What if I don't lead them in the right ways? What if I can't give them all the answers about angels. And this servant is right there telling Abraham this. And Abraham, who has grown in faith, says, hey, God is going to send an angel before you to lead you. He'll show you the way. And what I love about that is the confidence that Abraham had in his God that he could send an angel. And I think for us that we can imbue that same kind of confidence to our children to say, hey, God can lead you. He can lead you through the Holy Spirit, he can lead you through his Word, he can lead you through other people. Hey, guys, if he. If there's no other way, he'll send an angel to get it done. And just to, I think there's so many fears and so much anxiety that our children are facing in culture today. And even if it's things that they're scared of, just to say that angels are. Just have that kind of confidence that angels will lead us, as. As God directs them to. And then the last. The last letter in our acronym is just the S. And they serve as God's eight agents. And I put this in there because I want to be careful with an acronym. These are kind of what I call angelology handlebars for what angels do, in scripture to say that they are not confined to these things, that they serve as God's agents, meaning they can do anything God asks them to do. they can stand in front of a donkey if God wants them to block the path of a donkey. They can do laundry. in the book of Zechariah, there's an angel with, a priest that has dirty clothes. And it's an angel who comes and gets some clean clothes. Clothes. So I don't know if he did laundry or if he just got new clothes out, but they can do anything that God asked them to do, because they are at his beck and call. There's really only one thing that angels can't do, for sure, and that's that they could not put on flesh and dwell among us and die for our sins. Only the perfect son of God, the Messiah, could do that for you and I. And just to remember that angels are, are often pointing to him.
Dr. Jessica Peck: We have only barely scratched the surface, Melissa. So I hope that people who are curious will get a copy of your Bible study and lead your family to learn more about angels.
Sometimes parents don't have a theology degree, and they can feel scared
Because sometimes, Melissa, as you have already mentioned, these kinds of concepts can be really hard for parents who are discipling their kids at home. Because I hear often, you know, parents who will Send their kids to school and say, I need a math teacher because I'm not trained to teach math. Well, that most parents. Parents don't have a theology degree, and they can feel a little scared and a little hesitant to walk into. Wander into these kinds of subjects. And I see a lot of tendencies to say, well, let's just, you know, that that's a question for the pastor. That's a question for, you know, someone at church, for the priest, or, or that kind of thing. How do you encourage parents to open dialogue, to learn more at home, knowing they don't have a theology degree, knowing they have fears about saying the wrong things, and knowing that. That that is a real risk, that you want to make sure that you have good theology? How do you walk that line and faithfully disciple your kids while also knowing that you don't know it all?
Melissa Spoelstra: I love that question. I think, first of all, just letting your kids see your humble posture, letting them see that you may not. You may answer with an I don't know. Let's discover together. We have so many incredible Bible tools at our fingertips, that we can do a search on or that, look through scripture, and say, you know, I. If they ask if I have a guardian angel, you can say, you know what? I don't know. Let's discover together. Let me do a little research. Let me get back to you. Let's look at. Let's read these passages together and then pushing it back on your child. Okay, I've read these. What do you think? You know, what are. What are you coming up with? And I think that's a better tool than having angel answers is helping them learn how to be curious, to ask questions, how to approach the Scripture. One of my favorite things about doing something like a biblical theology in this was not only did I get to learn and teach about angels, but I got to teach a little bit about genre of literature. And I think that's important for your kids to know as well that you interpret a parable different than a poem, or apocalyptic literature, you know, different than narrative. And so just to be able to have those. Those conversations and being okay with an I don't know. And let's journey together to find that answer. And then the answer might be, I don't know. And letting kids learn how to sit in the attention of, First Corinthians 13, which says, now we know empower as in a mirror dimly, but one day we will know it all.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, I think that we can't overemphasize the power of prayer as well here. And I know that, you know, when I am talking to my kids, I just pray and ask God and I think, okay, here's God my father, and here I am his daughter saying, God, I am trying my very best to teach my kids, your word, to teach them a biblical worldview. Would you please guide me? Would you please protect me? Would you please keep their heart soft? Would you please show me when I, I misstep. And you think that God is not going to hear that and honor that prayer? I mean, I just feel like when you, if you pray and you open the scriptures and you tell your kids, yeah, we're learning, we're growing, and I love having resources like you, Melissa. You do have a theology degree, and we can, that's part of the body of Christ. You know, you can come along and equip me, help me be equipped for every good work. God uses you to do that. I am so convinced of that. And so I think those are some of the barriers that, you know, fear is a, is a big barrier too. We have lack of knowledge, but just straight up fear, like, thinking you've talked about it a little bit already, Melissa, just thinking, I don't want to open that door. I don't want to have these discussions talking about the supernatural. That's really uncomfortable. I'm just going to stick with Clarence on It's a Wonderful Life. Thank you. And hope it all turns out.
What do you say to people who really have a genuine fear about demons
What do you say to people who really have a, genuine fear? Because there are some things that, that are really genuinely fear inducing.
Melissa Spoelstra: Well, and scary. I mean, Jesus himself told us to pray, lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. That, that tells us that evil does have a presence in this world right now, that we live on a planet that is cursed by sin. But I think what's so encouraging as we go to the Word and as we read it, we see that we don't have to actually live in any kind of fear, whether we study angels or, or don't study them. because greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. I think about Romans 16:20, where it says the God of peace will soon crush Satan underneath our feet that we don't have to walk and live in. Ooh, if I, if I study angels, a demon might come after me. You know, there's so much fascination with this. There's a really popular thing with kids right now called K Pop Demon Hunters. And there's the show. I think it's on Netflix. And there's the music that they're listening to. 2. And so I do think they're like, wait, should I be hunting demons? Like, what. What is this? Where. Nowhere in scripture does it talk about this. But. But in Colossians, chapter two, this is a verse I hadn't seen and really embraced until I was studying angels. Because we know in Ephesians 6, it tells us that our battle is not against flesh and blood enemies. It is against rulers and principalities and powers and authorities. And that makes us think they're organized, they're strategic and. But I love this verse, verse, that, Paul wrote to the church in Colossians. He said, talking about Christ, that God made you alive with Christ. He forgave all your sins. Right, that's. That's pretty encouraging right there. But then he said he canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross in this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross. So they've already been disarmed. They can't possess you. They can't take over your body. And I think for your children to know they can't now, they can. They can tempt you. They can do all of. They can try to get you off the wrong path. They can distract you. But you have nothing to fear. Christ has disarmed these rulers and authorities on the cross. And as you press into your faith, you don't have to be scared. Instead, you can be prepared.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that we live in a world that's saturated by fear. We have kids who are more fearful than we have ever seen before. And. And there is. There's just this odd mix and culture of mixed messages about, well, this is scary, and this is not scary, and this is okay, and this is not okay. And. And I think it's really hard. They need a biblical worldview. They need grounding on the truth that is God's word. And some of these things that you've said are not.
Dr. Jessica Peck: You haven't made me feel afraid at all. You've made me feel empowered. And so how can we learn about angels to make us feel protected? Because you've already told us that God uses angels to. To ha. To send, to guard, to be protective for us. And so how does that affect the way that we engage in spiritual warfare? How we can engage intentionally, but not from a place of fear, not from a posture of fear, but from a posture extra of power that comes from God.
Melissa Spoelstra: Yeah, that's a great question. And I, I don't want to be the, the Sunday school simple answer. Jesus. But, but I think by helping our children become equipped, I think Ephesians 6 is a great place to take them to the armor of God and to say that the belt of truth. Who's the truth? Jesus at the center of our life, the helmet of salvation. Who's the author of our salvation? It's Jesus. The shoes of the gospel of peace. Who's the Prince of Peace Jesus. Every. I could go on, but every single piece of armor, our faith. That Jesus is the author and perfector of our faith. The Word. Let's see, who is the Word? John, chapter one. Right. Every single piece of the armor is actually Jesus himself. And so the best way to help our kids come up against the forces of evil that are all around them, the darkness that's all around them in their world is that they would have Jesus from the top of their head to the bottom of their tippy toes, holding their life together with His Word and His truth and his holy Holy Spirit. And that is the best way to equip them in a very scary world is by teaching them to cling close to Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck: I could not agree more, Melissa And I think that in, in everyday life it can be a lot easier for us to be complacent about our kids, engaging with cultural representations or ideas or you know, contemporary, contemporary cultures, representation of ideas of what angels look like, then to go to their Bible and to be filled with the truth of God's word. And this is where it's really important for you to be plugged into a theologically sound church, to be going regularly to be engaged in Bible study. We've talked about that, all, all different kinds of ways. And Melissa, I have so many more questions and I'm sure our listeners do too. And so if you have questions and you really want to engage in this, there's all kinds of resources here. There are some videos, there's an eight session Bible study. You can get the book, it's called Angels Bible Study. Find hope in God who reigns over heaven and Earth. Melissa, where can listeners connect with you further to learn more?
Melissa Spoelstra: Sure, anywhere, Christian books are sold, certainly lifeway, but also melissaspoelstra.com as the holidays are coming up, I do have seven free angel devotions you can sign up for. You just put your email in and for free you'll just for the next seven days in your inbox, get a devotional on angels at Christmas time, which would, as you learn, it'd be a great time to take that and, and then impart that into your kids. An angel came to Zechariah. An angel came to Joseph. An angel came to Mary. An angel came to the shepherds. And so to look at that story, as just supernatural and amazing and to help grow faith in our kids through that.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Melissa, I love that. I'm a big fan of environmental cues. And there are angels everywhere at Christmas. You will see. And you can say, hey, do you know what I'm learning about angels? The devotional that I'm reading about angels, Just the Bible study that I'm doing about angels. That's Melissa Spoelstra. S P O E L S T R A if you got that that quick. But we also have it in the show notes. And wherever you are, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace as you navigate this holiday craziness. We have been talking about preparing your hearts and your homes for the holidays so that you can have the best holiday ever. And, of course, that always, always goes back to Jesus. Hey, I'll see you right back here tomorrow. And I can't wait.
Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
