Transcript

Dr. Jessica Peck hosts the Nurse Mama show on American Family Radio

Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends. Hey, thanks for hanging with us there for a little technical difficulty. Welcome to the joys of live radio. Let me tell you, doing a live radio show has been so good for my prayer life because you never know what's going to happen. And I feel like I'm a mom of four kids. I should be prepared for this. But here we are. We don't have the joys to go back and, oh, let's just start that over. We're live, we're here, but that means we're real. And we are in studio. And I am so excited. We have a special treat today. I am talking today to Kendra White and Anne Cockrell. They host Hannah's Heart right here on American Family. Radio we don't often have the treat of being in the same room together, but we are in the same room together today. And I'm really excited about that. We have featured your program before and really you have a mission to encourage couples walking through infertility and miscarriage and just clinging to Christ, the ultimate hope. And we can find hope and hold hope for those who are hurting. That's what we're going to talk about today. Because if this is not you, I promise you that you know someone who's walking through this and even before the program, we were talk a little bit and that this world has, you know, a tale as old as time. Right. Because we know the story of Hannah in the Bible longing to have a baby. But it just seems like in the last few years there has just been an explosion of technology and just all kinds of things that really bring a lot of ethical questions for Christians who want to have a baby, who have that really godly desire. But at the same time, think, what road do I take? I, can do this, but should I do this? And that's where your program and is so important. So listen, I'm going to tell you as my listeners, if you know someone who is walking through a journey of pregnancy, loss of infertility, of miscarriage, I want you just to be so bold as just to send them this program. So often for so many people, it can feel like a taboo subject. Like everybody just kind of tiptoes around you and everybody knows. But just send them this program because I'll tell you, if it's a mom who is wanting to have a baby, she's looking for resources and looking for programs, and you never know. So I just want to encourage you and challenge you today if you're feeling that conviction, like, oh, should I send it to. Yes, you should. Go ahead and send it. So, Kendra and Anne welcome. Thanks for hanging in there with us and the technology troubles that we're having. So glad to have you here.

>> Kendra White: Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. And I feel like just hearing you from that intro that you already already get us, you are reading our mail and you know what we're about.

>> Anne Cockrell: We're friends.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: We are friends. I know. See, and I've been on your show. I've shared my own personal story. So to, some extent, I have walked that road. And although every woman's journey is different.

The Lord gave us another miracle baby through minimal, um, stimulation

Well, I want to know, just an update. How are things going? How are your families? Do you have any news to share?

>> Kendra White: I have another baby. The Lord gave us another miracle baby through minimal, stimulation, ivf. and, my husband, for those that don't know, is a paraplegic. So we had to research, and find a fertility clinic that aligned with our beliefs and that we're extremely pro life. and so we were able to go to Rejoice Fertility in Knoxville, and were able to conceive my beautiful daughter, Amelia Grace. And she is the happiest little giggly baby, my first one, who made me a mama. She is, like, passionate about everything. She's a 10 out of 10. Eliana Joy. We love her dearly, but the Lord knew I needed an easy baby with number two, so he granted my request. So we are thoroughly enjoying this season of life. And that's what's new with me personally.

>> Anne Cockrell: I was trying to remember last time we were on here, because my littlest baby, she just turned a year in.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: June, I think it was right before that you were. I was actually. Remember, I was disappointed because I was honestly kind of hoping that you would deliver on air. My board operator there, he was like, no, no, no. No chance. That shouldn't happen.

>> Kendra White: But I would have been here.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: So I think it was.

>> Anne Cockrell: It was right. You're right. And so. So that is Nora James. And, we are so thankful for her. She, so far is pretty easy, but we're now in the walk in stage. And so it's now she's into everything, but, we named her Nora and then James, after James in the Bible. But, if you follow our story at all, we had a baby to pass away in 2023. John, Micah. And we loved the connection of James and John in scripture, how they were brothers. And I know they both struggled with anger.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.

>> Anne Cockrell: Because when we talked about it, I was like, oh, they were kind of known for their anger, but they were also known for their relationship with Christ and how passionate they were about sharing the gospel. And, so that is why her middle name is James. And, I hope she feels a little connection with her big brother in heaven. But, we still have Mark and Jane around. Mark just turned five just a week ago, and he's very excited to be a whole hand. And is.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: That's a big deal? It's.

>> Anne Cockrell: It is a big deal. We are getting ready for a birthday party this weekend, to celebrate big. And then, we have our Jane. she was. Every baby is a miracle baby, Right. our Mark Grayson, we have. Through adoption. We had him through foster care, then adoption, and then our Jane. I got pregnant after being told, like, IVF is your only option here. We've done everything, you know, A, B, C, and D. Now you will have to do ivf. And my husband and I didn't feel called to do that. We weren't sure why. but we didn't feel called to do that just yet at that, point in time. That was. Oh, goodness. In 2016.

>> Kendra White: It was after six years of it.

>> Anne Cockrell: After four years infertility, but six miscarriages. And then all of a sudden, I get pregnant with Jane, and she has been on fire ever since. And, it's fun to be around and will make you laugh the whole time. You're gorgeous.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, I love it that we all have a heart for kids. You know, I've got four of my own, and it's so. It's so heartwarming to hear you talking about those early stages and the toddler stages and those sweet little baby snuggles. And I used to think, oh, those are so difficult. And then, of course, you know, now I'm parenting quasi adults. I'm moving three of my four kids this summer, so. And then they had college friends visiting, and so we had a. Somebody, come in to do some surface in our home.

>> Anne Cockrell: And.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: And he's looking. There's air mattresses everywhere. There's piled to the ceiling, there's bags everywhere. And he said, like, how many people live here? I honestly cannot answer that.

>> Kendra White: And your grocery bill, I can't imagine.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, absolutely. Like, I am constantly, you know, going to buy, like, in bulk, like, big bags of food and pizza and all of that kind of Stuff.

>> Anne Cockrell: Well, you're seeing that already. And he's five. Yes, we're seeing that already.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Get ready. That's all I have to say. Get ready.

There are joys in every stage and season, even in waiting

But there are joys in every stage and season, even in that stage of waiting. You can find joy and you can find hope even in that. And I hope, as you're listening, you can see why these ladies do such a great job of hosting Hannah's Heart. Because they have walked this path themselves. They speak with lived experience, and they. I think that gives you a special kind of empathy that you. Because you know this world, and even though every woman, every family, their journey is going to be different, you know that shared pain that you can feel and the shared loss of hope, sometimes you just feel like you lose hope. And that's why I'm so grateful that you provide hope.

Hannah's Heart is a podcast that focuses on infertility and miscarriage

So, for those who may not be familiar, tell us a little bit about Hannah's Heart, about your program, and what you've been talking about.

>> Anne Cockrell: Well, Hannah's Heart started goodness a few years ago. Now we're about to be four in October. and, we call it. It's a little baby ministry. It's about babies, and it's a tiny ministry, it feels like, at least for our local ladies here. But we started out as a radio show podcast because of Kendra and I walking through infertility. We met here at work after some people were like, oh, my goodness, that's part of your story. Well, you need to meet Kendra. You need to meet Anne And, I had gone to leadership about the idea, thinking that someone else around this place would begin a podcast or something, or just one show like, hey, bringing some light to infertility and miscarriage. Because, I mean, statistics have been updated again. But it's one in six couples that struggle with infertility and one in four pregnancies that end in miscarriage. And so, like, you're right when you say, like, you know somebody.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Absolutely.

>> Anne Cockrell: You're sitting by someone at church, you're riding by them in the car, you're standing by someone at the gas station. You're. You're gonna know someone that is struggling with infertility or who has walked through miscarriage. And, I think it's getting to be a thing that's, easier to talk about, but it's always hard. And it. As the person who struggled with infertility, I remember feeling silly, especially when I was in a room with my friends who were all pregnant at the time, and it was like, do I bring it up that I Feel awkward right now. Should I even not be here? Because y' all are all talking about diapers and baby showers, and I'm like, I don't. I don't have anything to say to you right now. and so it puts you in. In a place that you feel like you're alone until you finally find someone to talk to. And you're like, oh, my goodness, these feelings aren't crazy. You know, all that. My hormones, you know, anything. We talk about all that stuff on the show because it's all real, and it's stuff that you don't necessarily feel comfortable shouting out at church whenever they're asking for prayer requests.

>> Kendra White: Well, and even though we're a baby show, we have a couple new things that happen this year that I'd love to make sure your listeners know about. Yeah, please. We just started in January. We released, through the Stand, which is, AFA's monthly publication. an entire issue devoted to the themes that we talk about on air. We go into some of the bioethical issues, concerns about, and ivf, and, we talk about just how in culture there's like, this negativity on having children with population control and having to push back against that. And basically it's all. And then, of course, we talk about adoption and fostering and some really personal stories. And then there's like, this whole page of just resources for couples that are going through these things where it's like, here's this ministry, this ministry, this ministry, what they offer. Here's this book. so we have created that resource. We're so excited to get to partner with the stand to produce that. And we would love to see. See it on a coffee table in every church, because people need those things. I wish that we made what we wish we had when we started on our journey. And we had some really fantastic help here at AFA to create that resource. And we've gotten a lot of feedback from people that are saying, can you send more copies? So much that we're having to do a reprint, which is so exciting. We love that. and then also this past October, we did one of our first events. we did a butterfly release for couples who, have lost a loved one to be able to just honor that loss in a beautiful way. And we invited anyone in the area. Of course, it's open to anybody who's willing to travel here to Tupelo, Mississippi. We're going to do that again. We've decided we're going to try to do that every year, October is infant, and, pregnancy loss awareness Month. And so, it's just a beautiful time. We had someone show up for that. That I think it was, was 40 years ago that they had had a loss. They said, I've never dealt with this. Can I still come?

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: We said, yes. Yes.

>> Anne Cockrell: We had a few to reach out and say, will you still release a butterfly in honor of my baby? I can't be there because we're in, you know, hours and hours away from Tupelo. But, yeah. And so we took videos of those butterflies being released, and they let us know. They're like, even though this was a video, the fact that this was done in honor of my baby, who I never got to hold here on Earth, it meant a lot to me to see that done.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, absolutely. And looking at the issue of the stand, it was eye opening. I contributed an article to that. And just looking at what does it mean, because. Yes, because there's so many things to talk about, and I love that you're taking a holistic approach, because when we come back, one of the things I want to ask you about is dads. And so often there are women who are struggling with this, and we have dads who just. Just want to do. I'm sorry, you're going to do what men want to do. Fix it. Right. And this is something that sometimes they can't fix in the way that. That. That needs to be. And so we'll talk about some of the things that you've been covering on your show and more of the resources, more of the stories, but more importantly, how to hold hope for those who are hurting. We're going to be right back with more from Kendra White and Anne Cockrell.

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From Hannah's heart. Don't go away.

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>> Honestly, We Just Need Jesus by Terrian: When I take a step back. I can see it. All the pain, all the fear we've been feeling, losing sight of the thing that we're needing that we're needing. honestly, I think we just need Jesus. Honestly, I think we just need Jesus. Have we all gone mad? Have we lost our, minds? What used to be wrong, we say that is right. Honestly, I think we just need Jesus.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is honestly, we Just Need Jesus by Terrian There are so many days that is my prayer when I am in the thick of it. Whatever it is that I'm facing, I'm personally in that busy mom season, launching kids out into adulthood. And I know we have families listening who are all in all different stages of life, but we're talking today to Kendra White and Anne Cockrell, host of Hannah's Heart, right here on American Family Radio. And as we were talking, you heard heard before. One in six families is dealing with infertility, with pregnancy, loss. You know, someone this affects. And so we're going to have a conversation today that will inform you how to hold hope for them, how to encourage them, how to pray for them. And I encourage you to send them Hannah's heart, send it to them. Because don't feel like, oh, will it be offensive? Is it, you know, is it too sensitive? Just say, hey, I heard this program and I thought you might like it. Just send it to them. That's it. So we were just talking about just how your ministry is only four years old only. But look at all of the things that you're doing. I mean, the podcast, the stand, the butterfly release. And I think it's such a beautiful testament to life. One thing that I thought of when you were talking about a woman saying, this happened 40 years ago, and I still want to have a butterfly. Or I think about John Micah, who I know you have a legacy with him, and we'll be talking about Bibles for babies or as his legacy. One life even, no matter how brief, is so precious. And I think as we look at, obviously, infertility impacts mothers, but fathers are there, too. So what have you seen? I know you've talked about this a little bit on your show. But let's talk a little bit to dads who might find some hope in Hannah's heart and the information that you're providing as they walk alongside their wives.

How does child loss impact your marriage? How can a husband jump in

>> Anne Cockrell: Well, we've heard from dads. one man that we bring up a lot, if you're still listening. but he intentionally listened to Hannah's heart just to be there for his wife. And he was like, I, ah. That was all I knew I could do was give an hour, you know, 30 minutes of my week to listen to Hannah's heart, to just hear how I could be there for my wife during this time.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: That's so sweet.

>> Anne Cockrell: Isn't that so sweet? I was like, oh. But, yeah, just 30 minutes of your week to just listen to other women sharing, you know, grief and, to.

>> Kendra White: Understand what's going on in our busy heads.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.

>> Anne Cockrell: Yeah. Because our bodies are busy and we know that men and women process things differently and we handle things differently and men are thankfully just fixers. But yeah, like you were saying, like, there's no way to fix this. And, my husband had to walk through that trying to figure that out. We had to walk through that with our marriage of, like, I just needed him to listen sometimes, you know, just be someone to vent to or cry to or just. It's okay to not understand me because I don't understand myself right now. And so to just be okay, just being there to hold your wife and to love her and, to not make her explain herself because she really doesn't know how to explain herself right now. But also, as a man, to understand that this does hurt you and that that can be talked about. It is okay for a man to say, I'm not okay. And I don't exactly. Especially as we walk through child loss, we actually have an episode coming, from another couple who. Their baby passed away in 2023 as well. And that guy, he was like, I. I didn't know how to be there for her because I was sitting there. I didn't. I didn't know how to be there for me, you know, and so there it's. It is so compact. And, but for this.

>> Kendra White: And we know not all dads are the same. There are some dads who are. Are different. but for the most part, one thing that we found is most dads m. At least on the infertility side of things, they are not as involved and busy in the day to day trying to conceive face of things. and we've talked to a lot of women who will say, I just. It feels like my husband, do you even want this? Like, I want this, like, a 10. Like, where are you? And they're like, I'm a 4 on the scale. And again, that's not every man. but it's oftentimes it's the women who are scheduling the appointments with your OB that are trying to take the fertility medicines. We're scheduling the researching, the different options. And it's kind of like a second job a lot of times for women. we've done a couple episodes where we've talked about, thank God we're not the same. Can you imagine if both parties were at a 10 of how desperately they wanted this? Dishes would never get done, and you would literally go crazy. So we've tried to help couples see there is beauty in, the differences of the way that God made us. And again, there are some men who. They want it as at a 10, and it's, different for them. And sometimes it's the wife that's reluctant, but usually we find that the one that it's consuming most of their mental capacities is the woman. And so we've had a lot of couples on to talk about. How does that impact your marriage? How can a husband jump in and maybe help schedule a couple appointments? What kind of questions can he ask his wife so that she feels that he is involved and he does want this, and he does recognize her hurt and her loss. But also, how can women know that men can help give them, a sense of life is still moving. It's okay. You know, it is not the end of the world this month. Like, it's okay.

>> Anne Cockrell: Keep on. Still find so much value in your marriage because you still need to go on date nights. You still need to have fun. We encourage couples, you know, during Christmas time, go ahead and make the gingerbread house, even though there's not a kid there. Like, you are a family even without a baby in your home.

Ann: How do you speak about infertility with compassion and grace

And, that was one thing. I feel like we had to finally make a choice to recognize and wait. Will and I are a family. Like, even though we don't have the baby and the cute baby pictures yet hanging on the wall, like, we are, you know, the Lord sees us as that now, and so celebrate that, still have fun together, because it can be all consuming and it's just not supposed to be.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, that's really encouraging. And I'm sure listening to all of these stories, you know, you hear you carry a lot of tough stuff. You carry a lot of hard stories. A lot of heartache, a lot of disappointment, a lot of longing that may be unfulfilled. I'm sure you hear, too. I'm sure you hear the miracles. And this is such an issue that is so. It is really sensitive because it's so deeply personal. It is your longing to have a child and all of the spiritual implications that go along with that, the emotional implications, you know, all of those things. How do you find hope to continue to speak about this? Four years in, you're still talking about it. What gives you hope? And listening to maybe stories that don't end how people want them to. How do you speak that? With compassion and grace. Grace. And just continue to find energy for that?

>> Anne Cockrell: well, I know that the Lord is near to the brokenhearted, and I have to remember that and choose to acknowledge that there is. We have to acknowledge that as Christians, because really, like, rather, we're talking about infertility or some other type of loss or desire not met. Everybody's walking through something hard. I'm sure we can sit here right now and name multiple things that aren't the way that we wanted our life to look like right now or that we didn't picture it this way because, you know, your parents get divorced or this person had cancer, you know, so many different things. And so we have to choose to say, honestly, we still just need Jesus.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I mean, really, like, well done.

>> Anne Cockrell: When I was listening to it, I was like, that is so true. Honestly, if we're being honest, us, we just need Jesus. And at my son's funeral in John Micah, we chose to have the song the Goodness of God, played there. And, to be honest, I raised my hands in worship to the Lord there with my son's casket in front of me. But that my. My faith didn't necessarily feel that in the moment, but I still had to make the choice for my body to surrender and say, jesus, like, you're still good, even though in this, mom, this doesn't feel good at all. But, Jesus, you are good. And Kendra says it all the time, Jesus, you are enough. Even when my circumstances don't feel like it, Jesus, you are. And we just have to make ourselves realize that.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I mean, Anne just. I'm trying to. I'm trying to get past even how you start that sentence. At my son's funeral, that is the sentence that you say. That's. That's really hard. And I know it's still. It's still hard, and it's a pain that you carry, you know, you know that, I love that you played that song because thinking all my life you have been faithful and all his life, even though it was just a whisper, you know, God was so good. And for you. Look, I have goosebumps right here. But for you to sit here and to say God is still good, I think that's the kind of hope people are looking for. Just to say that even though we know we live in a broken world and things won't end up like we wanted them to, just to say that God is still good and that you still see God in that and still see God working through these precious little lives, you know, that's amazing. And Kendra, you know, we were talking before the show started and, and how the landscape has changed because even wanting a baby, losing a baby, those things, you know, have. We've seen those all throughout the course of human history. And I think that when people are looking on the outside to a journey, all of a sudden they've got a lot of advice, you know, I mean, and just how you should handle your grief, how you should handle your longing, whether or not you should have another baby. You know, maybe we, we've talked about all of this before and I think that was hard enough, you know, just even 10 years ago, but now it's so much more complex. And so let's talk a little bit about some of those complexities that couples are, are facing and what might be helpful and not helpful to speak into that because as you said, I mean, you know, if you're in this world, you're in this world you're researching. You talked earlier, Kendra, about aligning with an agency that aligned with your values. I think that's going to even be new to somebody thinking, what does that even mean?

>> Anne Cockrell: Y.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: So let's talk about the complexities of that and specifically how other people who are walking alongside that journey, how we can be really mindful and sensitive.

>> Kendra White: Well, we've mentioned the statistics of how, infertility is on the rise. But when you start looking at the whys, we had one article in that issue. I encourage you guys to go read the. We don't know all of the whys, but the toxins, the things that we're eating, the things that we are putting in the body is having a major effect. They're finding that even men's, fertility these days, the average 20 something year old man has the fertility of a 70 year old man just 50 years ago. So these, these toxins and things are building up in our body and There are so many couples that are. That are facing these questions of, oh, well, can I now use science to be able to help conceive? as, my husband and I jumped into this story, you know, we start looking at. We eventually we tried all the least invasive things, and we came to the point that Anne and Will did where they said IVF is, you know, is your all's only option. And, I had done just a little bit of research to know that I wasn't really comfortable with having multiple frozen embryos. and especially there are, I think, what is it, Ann? How many million?

>> Anne Cockrell: We have over. Just over a million in America.

>> Kendra White: Snowflake babies. Those are embryos that were created during the process of IVF that, are then neglected and left with no plan of what to be done with them. And if you are a believer who believes that life begins at conception, then you believe that that's a life that's created in the image of God.

>> Anne Cockrell: That, ah, they're just in storage facilities, right?

>> Kendra White: Yes. And there's so many deep complexities that come into this. And we try to help break it down on our show and not that that Anne and I know everything, but we want to bring up, hey, these are the questions you need to be asking before you allow your desire to overrule. what the Bible says. Because sometimes we can say, well, the desire to have a baby is a good thing. So I'm just not going to ask questions. Questions. When you do that, you are sticking your head in the sand and you are then causing later heartache that you may not realize. we have couples all the time that are like, man, I've created all of these, and now we don't have a plan for them. And they're having to make hard decisions about, do we put them up for adoption? Do we destroy them? so we do talk a lot about the, the process of IVF specifically. should Christians be involved in that? Even going into just basic IUIs? that's, inner uterine insemination there. The, the way the world does things is very different than the way we as believers do things. just the way. And I know we might have young listeners, but the, the way that, that things are done can, can, you know, they don't have a problem with pornography or with, you know, some of those things. And so it can put Christian men in a really awkward situation regularly, while trying to conceive. And again, I think a lot of times some Christians just kind of. Of pretend that that doesn't exist. And they ignore those issues rather than asking hard questions and coming back to the Bible and saying, what does God's word really say? And, and we deal with this a lot on the show. Has your desire for a child become an idol in your life? Because if it is an idol, then that desire is what's ruling you, not a desire to serve and honor God. And that's, that's hard because I had to deal with it. I can mention that on the show because I had to crush that idol before I can have children.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: that's really brave of you to say. It really is. And I think it's very difficult for Christian couples because in most agencies, when you walk in and you have, you know, the consultation, they're walking through all of those, all of the technicalities of the science and everything. And it's not common for them to say, okay, let's have a talk about how this might conflict with your faith. Let me lay out all of the possible ways and then we can mitigate that. It really is more a, patient driven. You have to come in informed and asking the questions and they can answer that. And so I think that makes it really hard. And I think when you're not in that journey, when you're not walking that road again, it's really easy to armchair quarterback, which, you know, I mean, you have, you know, all, all kinds of advice. And again, thinking of our young listeners here, I won't even repeat some of the advice that I've heard given to some of the mothers that I've worked with in a clinical context, who I've taken care of their, you know, maybe their other babies or they're coming for adv.

>> Anne Cockrell: Just.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that we really need to. Let's speak a word. I know we're about to go on a break, but give a gift. Who wants to give just a little preview? Just if you could give some advice in a nutshell, on, on, on being sensitive when you're talking to somebody else who's making all of those decisions, navigating all those complexities.

>> Kendra White: Don't start any sentence with, well, at least, oh, that's great.

>> Anne Cockrell: Don't start.

>> Kendra White: At least you already have a child. At least you can do you eat. Don't ever negate the pain that they have gone through. Really good and always you have to start with compassion or they're not going to hear you. especially if you haven't gone through that journey personally, recognize how difficult how real the desire is and connect with them in their pain first.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: That is really good advice because I can't tell you how many times I've heard that. At least you can try again or, you know, that kind of thing. Great advice. We will be right back with more talking about Hannah's Heart with Kendra White and Anne Cockrell. There's so many things to investigate here and we'll talk about kind of some of the trends and what is stirring on the hearts of people in this community. And again, I would encourage you to connect people to Hannah's Heart. We didn't dive into too much of the details, but that is the place where you can. You can go and listen to the podcast and have all of those very real questions about the struggles you're facing. We'll be right back with more from Hannah's Heart in just a minute.

Can authority of Christ be pitted against the authority of Scriptures

>> Dr. Al Mohler: Here's Dr. Al Mohler from the American Family Studios documentary the God who Speaks. I think one of the most interesting realizations from reading the Gospel is that this was a question. Can the authority of Christ be pitted against the authority of Scriptures? That was a question that was present in the Gospels and to which Jesus decisively answered. Most importantly in the Sermon on the Mount, where he made very clear, not one jot, not one tittle of the Word will pass away until all is fulfilled. Do not think he said that I have come to abolish the law, but rather to fulfill it. So it's really interesting if we ask that question. Well, here's Christ himself saying, I didn't come to, in any way subvert the scripture. I came to fulfill the scripture. I came in order that the scriptures may be fulfilled. Visit thegodwhospeaks.org.

>> Then Christ Came by MercyMe: Like a soldier with no armor in the middle of the battle. I was broken. I was broken. It was only getting darker in the valley of the shadow. I was hopeless. I was hopeless. I never thought that I would ever see the day when every single chain would break or hear the voice of heaven call my name. Then Christ came, changing everything. He took my sin and shame away. Now every song I sing will be for him Ever since the moment he walked in. Then Christ came.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends, Friends. That is Then Christ came by mercy me.

One in Six American families struggle with infertility or miscarriage

And we are talking to families who are walking through tough times, who maybe want a baby, are trying to have a baby, have experienced pregnancy loss, infertility, miscarriage. So want to tell you that's what we're talking about today. I know that can be a really tender topic for some families, but as you've heard one in Six families are dealing with this. And so if this is not you, you know someone, this is impacting. And we're trying to ra the word about Hannah's Heart, which is a program right here on American Family Radio. You can go to afr.net, you can download it on the podcast. If you know someone who is walking through this journey, I encourage you, send them a text message, send them an email, call them on the phone. If you have that relationship, tell them, hey, I heard a program that I think would really encourage you because it's all about holding hope for those who are hurting. And I'm talking today in studio with Kendra White and Anne Cockrell, who are the co-hosts of Hannah's Heart. And they're sharing all of the wide variety of topics that they talk to the different families who are going through journeys and maybe sharing some of similar griefs, but walking through very difficult and different circumstances. And the. We've been just talking about how things are just changing so rapidly. So many options available for science. And Kendra, right before the break, you gave some great advice. I don't even think, I think that could be generalized to any situation. Yeah, don't start with, well, at least because that, any other advice that you have that you want to share for those who are supporting from the outside and, and try and really are well intentioned, but maybe just don't know the right thing to say or not say.

>> Kendra White: Well, we have a lot of people ask how the church specifically can, not just individuals can rally behind people struggling with this issue. But, every year we do a Mother's Day episode specifically to help moms because we know that Mother's Day is a really hard day for people that are struggling with infertility or child loss. When you come and, and you know, they have all the moms stand up so we can honor. And you want to be a mom more than anything else or you've had.

>> Anne Cockrell: A miscarriage or you've had your child loss. Do I stand up?

>> Kendra White: Nobody even knows about this loss. It is an intensely personal and painful topic. so we've talked about how churches and pastors and prayer teams can come around this issue. One idea that we had someone mention was, specifically saying, hey, if you're so bold as to say I have had a loss or I'm struggling with infertility and I need God's help, we'd like to pray for you on this day and to acknowledge them in that way and then pray. And one, church mentioned that every year they have the next year women that stand up and say, I have had a baby and you prayed for me last year, and God broke through and did something incredible and miraculous in my life. And I will say this, too. Just, looking back on now, almost four years of ministry with Hannah's Heart, I started off thinking, is this going to be really hard for me to talk about this every week when I'm walking through it myself? Is it going to be hard for our listeners to hear stories of loss when they're grieving through their own loss? What I have come away after four years of incredible stories is that my confidence in the goodness of God and his miracle working power has grown. He doesn't always answer things the same way. And we've had a lot of stories that end with loss or end with, God led me to adoption or even, even end with, I didn't even have a child, but God brought peace in the middle of it. I know that. I know that he is good. And if you seek him and trust him that it is, your story is going to end out incredible because I know the author of the story. and, yeah, I don't even. I might have gone on a little rabbit trail there, but I just had.

>> Anne Cockrell: To mention that it is so true because it can. Even our producer, Mark, he'll. He's the first one to cry on.

>> Kendra White: The program almost every week, I can attest. Sorry, Mark, we're calling you.

>> Anne Cockrell: We love Mark Mark. but, he'll say he was like you guys. That was a hard one to hear, you know, but God, you know, and.

>> Kendra White: and even if you're not struggling with these issues, we've had some people call in and say, I don't even struggle with infertility or miscarriage, but I like listening to your show because there's biblical truth to get you through any hardship that you're going through. And the truth there is eternal. And some people listen to it not knowing that they're going to be the 1 in 6. And we mentioned the 1 in 6 statistic, but it's 1 in 4, almost 1 in 3 that deal with child loss. So we talk a lot about that as well.

>> Anne Cockrell: That's.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: That's.

>> Kendra White: You don't just know one person, you know, a dozen at least have had that loss.

A lot of times when you have an early miscarriage, you struggle with guilt

And one thing we do talk a lot about on the show is wanting to give, couples the space to grieve and recognize that loss was a human. A lot of times when you have an early miscarriage, you struggle with guilt. Why am I so sad. I was only pregnant for six weeks. You know, I. We hadn't even told people. And you struggle with that guilt. I think all of this just declares that these human beings are created in the image of God, whether they have one, one day, or, you know, a thousand. Psalm 139 says, Every day ordained for me was written in your book before one of them came to be. And when the Lord spoke that to my heart, because I felt so guilty when we had our loss of. And do I have a right to be feeling this heavy? And God said, yeah, it was a child of God. You recognize the gravity and the weight of what that means for a human to be born into our. Or to come into our world, and to be created in his image.

>> Anne Cockrell: That's right.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, the power of story is so. It's just tremendous. And hearing your story and the stories that you're sharing. You talked, just a minute ago, Kendra, about praying for churches, praying for couples who are struggling. And just recently, my son, he's a teenager, he was at a camp, and we went and the speaker got up and he said he, was a young man in his early twenties. And. And he said, I am here because somebody prayed. And I kind of thought, okay, well, you've got my attention. And he talked about his mother's struggle with infertility. Now, he was in his mid-20s, so this is 20 years ago. And he said she had struggled with for several years, but some day, one day a lady came up to them at church and said, I am going to pray for you. You're going to come up here, we're going to all gather around you. We're going to lay our hands on you. We're going to pray for you. And his mother had a baby. And he said, I can't tell you what it means to know that I was so deeply loved and wanted. And then he went through a lot of different things. There were some things that happened in his life that were really traumatic and really, and really hard. But he said, what I hold onto is I know that I was prayed for. I was brought into this world that God holds all of my days. And that's what gives me hope. And I sometimes seeing the stories, you know, just generation, generations into the future. That's the kind of work that you are doing right here with Hannah's heart. Those stories will live on for generations. And that is really exciting.

Three listeners have all had babies through Snowflake Adoption

So what are some of the. Can you tell us maybe one or two stories that you've had on your show that have been super powerful. Oh, Ann's already got her hand up. She's okay. She's like, oh, yes.

>> Anne Cockrell: Okay. Well, just as you were saying that before you even asked about a show, we have had enough, three different people to let us know they. That they did not know what Snowflake Adoption was until they listened to the program. And they've all three had babies through Snowflake Adoption, adopted embryos. Is that not crazy?

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: That's amazing.

>> Anne Cockrell: And so it feels like a little part, you know, and obviously spreading awareness and dozens of.

>> Kendra White: Dozens of emails of. I've struggled with infertility, and here's my baby that God gave me just through natural conception as well.

>> Anne Cockrell: So we, we're actually starting when. When we do that. It'll be a little while, but we have Hannah's Heart one for our Hannah's Heart babies. They're not available to order just yet, but, you heard it here first. It's in the near future. But it's so cute. They are gender neutral, so it can be for a boy or girl. They're just gray with and white. but we think it's so special when people let us know, hey, I asked you three years ago to start praying. We were starting the IVF process or adoption or foster care, and this is what's happened now.

>> Kendra White: And so hannahsheart @ afa.net if you want to email us. We love getting emails, even just asking for prayers. My daughter's name, Eliana, means the Lord has answered. Because we had people. I had a listener call y', all, who said, I'm fasting for you because I know that you desire. And I was like, it means a lot to me to, like, not have food. And we've had so many listeners call and tell. Anne and I, we're praying for your families because we're very vulnerable about our journey. And when we started this, we didn't have children. We didn't have any babies. and so we've seen those miracles and those prayers answered. and it. It means a lot to know somebody. We will specifically pray for you by name. If you'll email us at Hannah's Heart.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Do you hear that? hannahsheart@afa.net so if you know someone who is walking through this journey, send them the program, text them right now. Like, literally, get out your phone, text them, email them, tell them they need connection to this community. I mean, what a beautiful community. And I am told that you have maybe a little exciting sneak peek, preview, announcement, exclusive. Do I have an Exclusive here.

We have our first ever conference coming up in January of 2026

Okay. All right, tell us what's coming up.

>> Anne Cockrell: Well, we have our first ever conference coming up in January of 2026. So last weekend. We're excited about it. I'm sc about it, to be honest. When, when a member of leadership came to me with this idea and he was like, this is what I want y' all to do. I was like, I don't know how to plan conferences. I'm just letting you know. but I didn't know how to do podcast either, until here you are until we started.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Now you're pro.

>> Anne Cockrell: Well, I wouldn't say that. but, it. It's so neat how you can watch the Lord just provide each and every step, because there's even been times. Times like we don't have anyone on the schedule. And, well, what are we going to talk about? There's nothing like. But just God continues to then fill that schedule again. And obviously it's. I wish no one else had a story of child loss or a story of miscarriage. But we do know that there is more child loss and miscarriage and infertility out there. And we do. We try to break up some shows. We'll talk about foster care and adoption. We've covered singleness and, you know, the desire to want a baby, but want that husband or, you know, wife first and. But you can't have a baby until, you know, and then we've covered pregnancy centers because that's. We try to, you know, during our weight, we say, don't waste your weight. And obviously that seems like something that could be hard to do. Support a pregnancy center for crisis pregnancies when I'm desiring to have a baby right now. But man has it, I feel like, changed so many people's lives.

>> Kendra White: Broken off a lot of change. Of people that were struggling with, jealousy.

>> Anne Cockrell: Yeah.

>> Kendra White: Of others. And then God, when you. When you give to somebody else who has a different struggle than you, it just helps break that chain.

>> Anne Cockrell: Yeah.

Jane Johnson walked through 10 years of infertility in a new book

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: So what's your vision for this conference? What's it going to be like?

>> Kendra White: So, first of all, It's January of 2026, and we're going to have more information available hopefully very soon.

>> Anne Cockrell: We do know the speaker watching for that, Jane Johnson, if you have heard of her. She has a book that came out called Mercy, Like Morning, and she walked through 10 years of infertility. And, she just was. Throughout her book. Please read it. Mercy, like mourning, completely changed my walk with the Lord, my prayer life. I'd walked through that as I was walking through infertility. I was gifted that book through someone who found out about our story. And, she just never felt called to adopt. Never felt called to do Ivy. If she just stood still. But she didn't just stand still. She was waiting on the Lord. And we all know that waiting is a verb. Like, you're still called to do something for God as you're doing that. And so she shares through that whole book. And, long story short, she ends up having some babies now, and they're. They're getting bigger. But, she will be here in Tupelo, Mississippi, to, talk to us during that conference. Then we have a really special guest coming in to do worship. his name is Phil King. He was actually on one of our programs a few months ago. He wrote a song called Miscarriages, and he actually performed in Times Square. and I think all the billboards or whatever, all the signs that change in the middle of Times Square.

>> Kendra White: If the image of running to meet your baby in heaven has ever brought you to tears.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Oh, my goodness.

>> Kendra White: Warning about this song. Okay.

>> Anne Cockrell: I was A sweetest song you've ever heard. The sweetest song. Listening to it. But you can't help but think about all of. All of our babies. But how you have babies in heaven. I do.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I have babies in heaven. And I think about that because I shared when I was on your show, when I had a miscarriage, you know, I. I actually conceived pretty quickly after that. And now that son is going off to college. And I was looking at him the other day. He's 6 foot 5, by the way. He's like. He is my giant. He's a gentle giant. But I was looking at him. I just love him so much, you know, I just adore him. He's such a good kid. And I was just thinking, oh, you know, without that loss, like, I m. Wouldn't have him. M. And now I have him, and I have a baby in heaven. Like, it's just. I still don't understand it all, just like you said, when I don't understand myself. But I do understand and believe that God is good. God has been so real to me in all of that, in my own personal journey and walking through so many other families, as I've done. I've worked in labor and delivery and pediatrics for almost 30 years now, so Walked alongside so many families. And I can say that despite all of that, just like you were saying, God is good. Well, listen, I am, I. I've gotten goosebumps so many times during this program. Listen into Hannah's heart and send it to a friend. Really do send it to somebody, you know who is walking through this journey. You don't have to say anything, but, hey, I heard this and I thought it might encourage you. That's all you've got to do. And you never know where that might lead. People are looking for answers they can trust. And Kendra and Anne thank you so much for all of your work that you do to provide just a companion and community to walk through that together. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing today, thanks for listening in. And I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you, and I will see you right back here tomorrow.

>> Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.