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 : Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio.

 : I love talking about the things of God because of truth and the biblical worldview. The U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time.

 : This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.

Jenna Snow: Christians need biblical perspective on Minneapolis immigration controversy

Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Friday, January 30th. Yes, it is still in January. And we are still talking about the situation in Minneapolis, not just from, from a political headline perspective, but from a biblical and truth based perspective. Because whenever we see anything in the headlines, in the news and all of that, we need to bring first and foremost a biblical mindset and, understand what God has already said about fundamental issues like civil government, authority, law and order, border security, borders in General, Acts 17, talking about God establishing nations and borders, and understanding what is the proper role of government. Legitimate authority, obviously not abuse or overreach, but legitimate authority. When, especially we are talking about not just people who have entered illegally, but also people who remain and also, even citizens who are now going and clearly obstructing law enforcement. And how do we deal with that and whose side should we take? this should not just be a party siloed, sort of analysis where if it's Republican good at, Democrat bad, there can definitely be a lot more nuance than that. And there absolutely is. We always need to approach every situation, whether it's headlines, it's something your pastor says in the church or should not be saying in the church, the family situation, how you deal with, personal relationships, all of that. Every single thing that we do in our lives as Christians needs to be founded in the person of God and truth. And we build our view or our worldview up from there and how we act and behave and what we think needs to be conformed always with the truth. So one of my favorite apologists for the Word of God is Alex McFarland, who is, also an author. he's the founder of Alex McFarland Ministries, and he also hosts Exploring the Word, right here On American Family Radio Network. He's on our board. You know him well, because I love having him on this program. And Alex, you know, in this, in this day and age, we've called for a long time, I mean, for the last, you know, even 20 plus years that I've been engaging in worldview. Ah. And apologetics and all of that. We have already, even, you know, more than that, probably, even before I was born, said, you know, we are now a post truth society, meaning that people are looking to rationalize their, viewpoint. It's called standpoint epistemology, where we view truth just through our particular, our particular stance and the standpoint, rather than saying that truth is a fixed, objective, standard, and no matter what our perspective, life experience, et cetera, that's a fixed standard that doesn't change. But it seems like even from 20 years ago, we have gone so far off the cliff, even more toward not just a post truth, but a post, you know, even rationality society. Where do you think that has, that mindset has really come from? Because I'm finding it really difficult sometimes to even have rational conversations, with people not just about truth being relative or fixed, but about even reality being discoverable. And it's like, you know, people just are literally out of their minds.

Alex McFarland: Wow, that's a great setup and Jenna, thanks for having me. It's great to, be on with you. And I really appreciate the, important points you touch on because. And really one of the most important things that the church could be messaging on is truth, the nature of truth. Because like you say, standpoint or relativistic perspectives, it's like I am the locus of reality. I make my own truth, in reality. The epistemology of the Western world and certainly the church has been what we call called the correspondence view of truth. That truth is that which corresponds to reality. You know, in other words, it's the way things really are. And, Jenna, College has become four years and $100,000 to discover that you can't know anything. And it's like 2nd Corinthians 4. 4 says the God of this world, Satan, little G, the God of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe, and they're unable to see the glorious light of the good news. And, you know, Jenna, even as I, even as you and I record this, I was supposed to be at two universities in Mississippi this week, but big snowstorm came along and so it got postponed. But as I, dialogue with college students, and certainly professors at secular universities, unless they not just have a Christian background, but just, the willingness to believe that rationality is possible. I mean, it's hard to get people to agree on much of anything. I mean, 20 years ago, apologetics was all about the evidence for Jesus, and it should be. But more and more, Jenna, apologetics is devoted to just the idea that there is anything we can truly, truly know. But in a culture where there's a wholesale rejection of reality, we're in trouble. So we've got a lot of work to do.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And you know, I always love it when people say, you know, when people say, well, you know, you can't know anything and truth isn't real. And I said, well, how do you know? I mean it's, it's such a self confusing argument. Right? And it's, and the way that people try to rationalize through intelligence, through design and order, they try to rationalize their way into disbelieving God. as so many apologists always say, those arguments are dependent on borrowing from reality, that humans have intelligence, that we can discover things, that we can know, things that we can communicate. and so if they want to try to make those arguments, well, then take away all of the tools that you're borrowing from the Christian worldview and from reality and then try to make that argument. And of course they can't. So it's so self defeating, but it's, it's so frustrating. I, think when we are trying to combat all of the false narratives, we're not even starting from the ground up. We're starting from an individual who already has a set of basic assumptions and they're coming to, to the argument with a lot of false assumptions, if they are not coming at it from a position of the biblical worldview and truth. And those basic assumptions, Alex, often are the more important things to address first before we even get into talking about why the statement or the argument that they're making in any given instance is irrational or is a false conclusion or isn't grounded in truth. And so what have you found are the primary false basic assumptions that a lot of, especially students that you interact with come to the table with?

Alex McFarland: Great, great question, Jenna. And, but by the way, you know, our ability to reason and to think rationally is part of, the image of God that makes us a human being really. And I think one of the ways Satan has tried to debase humans is to, either knowingly or unknowingly persuade people to Believe that, there are no principles of logic. And, you know, like you said, when people just glibly say, well, no, one knows absolute truth, and I'm certain of it, you know, or, you know, logic doesn't apply to reality. And let me explain why. I mean, that's a contradiction. It's like saying, you know, I cannot utter a word of English. And you might say, well, you just did.

Jenna Ellis: You just did. Right?

Alex McFarland: You have to invoke English to even form a sentence to deny English. Or you have to invoke reason, reasoning capabilities to deny the validity of reasoning. And so one of the beautiful things, I mean, like the operating system we humans run on is logic. And the God of the Bible, that is the only true and living God, has revealed himself to the human race in a number of ways. Creation, conscience, the moral law that's on our heart and soul. But in terms of God's written revelation, which is the Holy Bible, God has revealed himself to us in propositional truth. Now, a proposition is a statement about reality, a truth claim. Jesus is the son of God. Okay, that's either true or false. And so, Jenna, when I'm at colleges or panel discussions, people say, well, that's true for you. No, it was true before I ever came along. you know, and, it's not merely my perspective, although I certainly do believe it. No, Jesus is the son of God. Jesus did rise from the grave. The Bible is God's word. In fact, Christ himself. In John, 1035, Jesus said, the scripture cannot be broken. So for a lot of people, especially people that are, you know, the sin nature is in the driver's seat and bias and blindness. And let me just say this. In First John, chapter, two, it says if anyone says he has no sin, he deceives himself and makes God a liar. And the truth is not in him. Okay, so God loves us, but God says we're sinners and we need redemption, right? So there's. Follow this progression. There's bias, there's blindness, and there's bondage. If we don't admit that we need Christ, that God reveals truth, we don't make our own truth. And so, we're in a world that the church needs to, I believe, rise to the challenge of 1st Peter 3:15, be ready to give an answer.

Jenna: We need a revival of truth, like urgently

But I want to say this, Jenna. clearly we're not afraid of hard work. God's got some incredible leaders on the horizon, and you are one of them. But we need, we desperately need in the Western world and certainly in the United States. We need a Holy Spirit movement and we need God to do what none of us can do. you know, I think about some of the great communicators of our times, like you and Abe Hamilton and my friend of 30 years, Frank Turek and Sean McDowell and so many others, and thank God for the people valiantly holding forth. But we desperately need God to do what none of us can do, and that's to convict the hearts of people, open the eyes of the blind multitudes. And we need a revival of truth, like urgently. Would you agree?

Jenna Ellis: Oh, a hundred percent. We absolutely need a revival of truth. And as you were talking, Alex, I was thinking, you know, when people come to the the understanding of the difference between truth and non truth, it's, it's really a question of also, the difference between facts versus belief. Because when people say, okay, well, you know, that's, that's what you believe in Christ and that's, you know, you, you believe the Bible, that's good for you. What they're actually doing is denying fact and reality and claiming that the Christian worldview is just a relative, ah, religion and saying, well, if that works for you and it makes your life better personally, you know, fine, fine for your choice, but I'm not participating. and it would be utterly absurd in another context if that same person said, well, you know, gravity is great for you and you believe in gravity and I don't. you know, if that makes your life better, great. And you're going, it's not that I believe in it because I, that that's my personal choice. It's that I believe in it because I experience the truth of it and I've discovered the fact of it. And so I'm willing to accept reality. I mean, belief isn't just this kind of nonsensical, you know, fairy tale, like, you know, view of the world. It's not, I believe like I'm just hoping something or I like something, or it's preferential belief. I mean, belief in reality means I am accepting that I am not the arbiter of reality. And I'm accepting what's true because it's outside myself, it's objective, and I'm willing to accept that. Just like I might say, I believe. Yes, I believe that airplanes can fly. Yes. I believe that, you know, the sun rises, in the east and sets in the west. It's not, that's not dependent on whether I believe it or not. It is. And I'm simply according my life to the truth and being honest and saying, yes, I believe that because it's true. And so I think we also need to go back to fundamentally the difference between observable, discoverable truth, fact versus mere belief.

Alex McFarland: Yeah, that's a great point. That's a great point. let me throw a couple of words out here. Subjective and objective. Now, in life, we make 10,000 subjective value judgments, preferential choices. one person, you know, wants a cheeseburger, One person wants the chicken sandwich. I mean, there are plenty of subjective personal preferences that we choose. But then there are things that are objectively true. And think of the letter O, outside of ourselves, objectively true. You know, what if I said, you know, in my opinion, Texas is on the North American continent? You might say, look, that's not your opinion. I mean, it's just fact. You know, you can get a globe and see it. Things that are objectively true are true correspondent with reality and irrespective of anybody's opinion. And, so things like, the moral law that all people really do know, that is irrevocably true. You know, Jenna, I think when the Supreme Court in 2015 wanted to, quote, legalize gay marriage, which is really an oxymoron. I mean, by definition, you know, marriage is between a man and a woman. Marriage, true. Marriage is inherently heterosexual. But, I mean, m. It would be the same as if Congress said, you know what? We're going to repeal the law of gravity. well, you don't have the power to do that. You know, and, putting ink on paper doesn't make the opinion of man true. You know, you could pass anything you want. but, there are. And this was. This was the. The foundation of the Western world. It certainly was the worldview, the epistemology of America's founders, even, I mean, you go back to, you know, Aristotle, who I pray will see in heaven, but I'm just not sure, Jenna, but, the father of logic. I mean, there are some things that are undeniably true. Aristotle, wrote about what were called first principles. Things that are. That are undeniably true. It's like your shadow. You cannot outrun your shadow. and some of the basic first principles. Truth exists. Truth can be known. Truth corresponds to reality. You know, these. These kinds of truth can be expressed in words. By the way, Jenna, I've been at colleges where people go, well, you know, truth can't be expressed in words. And I'll say, yes, yes, go on and they'll, you know, talk for two, three minutes and I'll say, truth can't be expressed in words. But you just expended four or five minutes of words and you want me to believe the sounds you've just made. I mean, truth can be expressed in words. So, we're living in a, this is the, this is the cognitive dissonance of America in the 21st century. We so desperately don't want objective truth to exist. We want to make it up for ourselves, and yet, we can't deny it. There are some moral boundaries. They are incumbent on all people. And all of the spin, backflips and argumentation in the world cannot eradicate the fact that truth exists. God has revealed it and we are accountable for what we do with the truth that we truly did know.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And this is why I think, Alex, it's so important for Christians to not just be caught up in, you know, some of these more trite kind of Christianese phrases like, you know, do you believe in God? Do you believe, have you accepted, Christ into your heart? because those aren't really precise phrases. It's not whether I believe in God, it's do you accept the reality of the truth of God? Do you acknowledge that? it's not just, do you believe it? Like we can pick or choose and say, well, I don't believe that and it doesn't matter because I'm entitled to my preferences. I'm entitled to my truth. Right. That's, it's the same way as I always talk about with, the, the phrases that we use in the U.S. constitution context.

There is a difference between acknowledging truth and accepting it as objective

Right. Where it's not my First Amendment amendment right. It's my God given pre political right that through the First Amendment my government is obligated to preserve and protect as a redundancy mechanism. But that's a very different way of articulating my constitutionally protected rights. And in the same way I think we need to be precise when we talk about salvation. We talk about acknowledging, affirming the truth of God as something objective outside ourselves versus this belief and this view of I'm free to accept or reject the truth that's dependent on my personal belief and my standpoint epistemology. I mean, I think there is a difference there.

Alex McFarland: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Jenna Budd says America cannot survive the cancer of relativism

And you know, what was so, unique about America and really our great strength, I mean, kind of the X factor, America for. And this is our 250th birthday. I mean this nation. Thank you. Jesus has existed for a quarter millennia, but based on the trends of really, like, the last 10, 15 years, Jenna, I mean, we've survived the revolution, the Civil War, World Wars I and 2, Korean War, Vietnam. Our nation has survived many things. The Cold War, the threat of Soviet communism. And yet, I question whether or not the United States of America can survive the cancer of relativism. You know, I mean, back in 2011, Barack Obama said, and this is about 99% verbatim, but he said, everybody should live in accord with their own values. That is a horribly toxic statement. I mean, really, you know, what if someone's values, are. Or to be a serial killer, you.

Jenna Ellis: Know, I mean, your value like this, you know, this Alex Preddy guy who's clearly, his values are going. And obstructing law enforcement and spitting on him and kicking at him. You know, it's like, well, don't touch. That's. He's. He's living out his values. Or, you know, woman, having an abortion. Well, she's living out her values. We can't judge.

Alex McFarland: I mean, Adolf Hitler lived out his values. Charles Manson and Jeffrey Dahmer. What about. I mean, just to show you how far we have fallen, Lexie Lawler, the nurse in Florida, there's no way we could even enunciate the unspeakably vile curse words that she put on social media. M. In two different posts. are you familiar with this story out of, the hospital in Boca Raton, Florida? Who, And, you know, thank God the Attorney General of Florida has revoked her nursing license.

Jenna Ellis: And hopefully we're actually getting, the Florida AG on this program sometime next week. So stay tuned for that.

Alex McFarland: Good for you. Congratulations. But, you know, here's the thing. The X factor that made America so resilient and so strong was that even if maybe somebody was, you know, Catholic, Protestant, Greek, Orthodox, Jewish, or maybe they didn't even. They weren't Christian or religious at all. But we did agree on this common moral foundation. And that's why, Jenna, when, you know, I was at the University of Kentucky Medical School at Louisville a couple of years ago, and there was a panel discussion on what is a human being? I was very honored to participate. And when the conversation quickly turned to transgenderism, and I said, a male is not a female. And some of the medical students or 400 medical students in this auditorium, they said, don't impose your Christianity on me, I'm like, look, a male is not a female. That's not Christianity. That's just reality. You know, there should be legal protection for the unborn. Our Constitution makes a proviso, legal protection for all human beings at every stage of life. And they were like, you can't impose your religion. I said, well, the idea that, one of the inalienable rights is the right to life, that it comports with Christianity. But this is pre Christianity. I mean, and by the way, let me say 1943, C.S. lewis wrote a book called the Abolition of Man.

Jenna Ellis: I love that book.

Alex McFarland: It's a great but fantastic book. In the back of the book there's an appendix where he goes over dozens of societies throughout world history all around the globe. East, west, you know, Oriental, occidental, Jew, gentile. All these societies that have a moral code that is a mirror image of Exodus 21 through 17, the Ten Commandments, and more recently, those men. University AH of Texas at Austin. J. Buddisheski. I jokingly said his business card was like the world's smallest eye chart because there's more vowels and consonants in his last name than you can imagine. Jay Bujaszewski. But he wrote two books. One was called what you can't not know. And there's a little more accessible popular level edition called the line through the heart. But basically picking up on Lewis's theme, Buddieski and others have argued this, like Chuck Colson. But there is a moral code. It is the law of God written on every heart. We can argue, debate, spin, rationalize, but there is a moral, an objective moral truth. I'm not saying we always do what's right, but deep down we know what's right.

Jenna Ellis: And we gotta take a break here. Alex, I'm so sorry to cut you off, but I just, I so agree. And this is why we need more long form podcasts and radio shows. I keep telling Tim, you know, he should give me three hours in the morning so we can continue to discuss this. But I so appreciate, the stand for truth. We've got to continue to talk about these things. We'll be right back with more. welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.

Former CNN anchor Don Lemon has been arrested, according to CBS News

Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. Well, breaking this morning, former CNN anchor Don Lemon has finally been arrested. He was taking into custody, per CBS News, so they report. Former cable news anchor Don Lemon was arrested last night. Multiple sources with direct knowledge test tell CBS News. A source familiar says a grand jury was impaneled on this yesterday. FBI and HSI were involved in the arrest, sources say, and it's not immediately clear what charges he would be facing. But his lawyer confirmed that Lemon was taken into custody by federal agents Thursday night in Los Angeles, where he was covering this weekend's Grammy Awards. I just think that's a little bit of poetic justice, guys, that he's taken into custody at the Grammy Awards. this is just. This is just good. So CBS News has reached out to the Department of Justice for comment, and the statement from his lawyer goes on to say, instead of investigating the federal agents who killed two peaceful Minnesota protesters, the Trump Justice Department is devoting its time, attention, and resources to this arrest. And that is the real indictment of wrongdoing in this case. Yeah, whatever. He totally deserves this. he deserves to face justice for being part of this, this terrorism. Going into a Church in St. Paul, where I don't think that he was in any way covered by, First Amendment protections. He was part of this mob, went in. I just really hope that the indictment is strong enough that, it sticks. But at the very least, he will have to, figure this out now, so.

James Fishback is a candidate for Florida governor

So let's welcome in James Fishback, who is a candidate for Florida governor. And, James, we'll get to the topic that we originally booked you for this morning, but I wanted to get your response, to this breaking, news.

James Fishback: Well, it is a good day for law and order in America. I mean, let's just back up for a second, Jenna. A man ransacked a church during Sunday service with BLM and antifa thugs. If our founding Fathers knew that a bunch of thugs led by Don Lemon had ransacked a church on Sunday morning while parishioners were praising our awesome God, they would have likely called for his public execution. And so Don Lemon should be lucky that he's not getting executed in the public square for his little stunt, his violence, his aggression. It's time that Christians stand up for our rights in this country. We cannot be bullied, we cannot be pushed around, least of all by Don Lem. And so it's a good day for law and order. I'M proud of what President Trump and the DOJ are doing. And let's see that justice is served in this case all the way through.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, you know, that's a great point. I mean, back in the Founders era, you'd be hanged for, stealing a horse. I mean, they knew what swift justice meant. they knew that that was important to, reduce, crime and to ensure, of course, that you are held accountable and punished for, for your actions. And so hopefully this isn't just something that Don, Lemon squeezes out from, but we'll see how, how this goes. But I have to say I am, surprised, but pleasantly surprised that the DoJ actually went and swiftly pursued an indictment. I really thought that when they, removed their request for the arrest warrant from a judge, it was going to take them a lot longer to run to a grand jury. So I really agree there.

I wanted to talk to you about the Florida governor's race

So we'll continue following this story, but, I wanted to talk to you about the Florida governor's race because, this, of course, is a. It's a statewide, but it's a national race in the sense that, obviously, all eyes are on Florida. Governor DeSantis has been, everybody on the conservative side knows, has been the most incredible governor for the last eight years. He's term limited. And so who succeeds him is incredibly important. Now, I have my personal opinions, which, of course, I am very clear, to my audience about what I think about the race. I haven't endorsed anyone yet. I can in my personal capacity, of course. And we have a policy, that I think is a great one, that if we invite, a candidate on in the primary, we invite everyone. And so we've had, of course, ah, the invitation extended to Byron Donalds, who's been radio silent like he has. you all know what I think about Byron Donald's and why I don't support him, personally. You know, a lot of those issues. we've had, James Fishback on multiple times. We've had Paul Renner on multiple times. And I've had, Jay Collins, who's the, current Lieutenant Governor of Florida, when he was a state senator, when he was lieutenant, when he was appointed Lieutenant governor. And we had him booked, on radio yesterday morning, actually. And then I got a call on Tuesday, and this is just, you know, full disclosure on how the sausage is made. I got a call Tuesday from one of his staff members saying that he was backing out because he was concerned that I would ask hard questions. So I offered to Give his team topics up front and say, you know, I'm always friendly to. I mean, I'm going to ask hard questions of every candidate for Paul Renner. A lot of people have asked, you know, does he support the Second Amendment? I asked him those questions, said, hey, do you want to clarify? you know, same thing, that I would ask for Jay Collins. And yet when I responded to a question on my personal X account, just simply disclosing, yeah, we had him booked, he backed out. I didn't even go into that much detail. a lot of his supporters and followers just got so crazy vitriolic and started accusing me of all kinds of things that you and I, James, then, you know, we're talking after that because you saw all of that and you said, hey, let me come on tomorrow. And I said, sure. So here we are.

Jenna Broward is running for Florida governor against Ron DeSantis

what are your thoughts overall on, you know, what's. What's fair game in terms of a campaign? And also your response to, Jay Collins? Apparently, you know, not even being willing to come on. Honestly, friendly media.

James Fishback: I don't understand it, to tell you the truth. Look, if you're, if you're running to succeed Ron DeSantis, who is inarguably the greatest governor in Florida history, one of the greatest governors in American history, you have to be able to take tough questions. I think nothing's off limit. I went on CNN last month. I'll be going on Piers Morgan next week. Heck, I'd love to go on the View and give those ladies a dose of good conservative America first energy. But we can't run from a fight. I mean, it's very, very early on in this race. And here's what I'll tell you. What people want more than anything is they want a candidate. They want a governor that they can see, talk to, and even ask hard questions of. And so, Jenna, in the last eight weeks since I announced my run, I visited 21 different counties. We're a state of 67, as you know. I'll visit all 67 before election day on August 18th, because you need to see your next governor in need to be able to talk with them, debate with them, and maybe even yell at them and have some of that reasonable disagreement. I've always found you to be incredibly reasonable. You and I have had our policy differences in the past, but it's always good to be on here. The big picture view, I think, is that Florida is the greatest state in the country, but that means nothing if people can no longer afford to live here. And whether I'm in Mariana, Miami, Pensacola, or Pokey. What I'm hearing from young and old, black and white, Christian, Muslim and Jew is it's becoming so hard to stay and live and afford in Florida. That means for a senior paying their property tax bill at the end of the year. It means for a young couple struggling to buy that first home. It means for a working family trying to scrape together funds to pay the HOA ah bill or property insurance. And so the number one thing in the governor's race, what I'm hearing from folks on the ground, is how can you make our lives more affordable? I'm running because I have a detailed plan to do that. The first is we got to kick out the institutional investors, the blackrocks, the Blackstones, from buying up, hoarding up all these single family homes. If we ban them from doing that, your kids, your grandkids will be able to buy a home again. We have to end the H1B scam. All these Indians that come into our state that take jobs that would have gone to UCF or SSU or us grads can now go to our students again. And we have to remember that our education system is the great equalizer for young kids. We've got to raise standards. I mean, I love Florida education. I'm a public school kid from kindergarten to graduation. But, Jenna, here's the truth. If I went to the top high school in Florida and picked a kid out at random and said, let's go outside for a second, and I said, which way is the Pacific Ocean? Okay, that's the first question. Number two, can you recite the Second Amendment, the most important amendment, verbatim? That's, that's the second question. And then number three, someone just bought a coffee for $8.97. They gave you a 50. Can you make change in under 30 seconds? So until and unless Florida students can answer all three of those questions correctly, they should not be graduating from high school. That's why I'll be the first governor in the country to mandate a parent teacher conference for every single student twice a year. I'm going to mandate a statewide school uniform because you have to be dressed for success. You can't be showing up to school dressed like a gang banger with your jeans at your knees. You got to show up with standards. And then lastly, we have to teach the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, cover to cover. You know this, Jenna, as an attorney better than anyone. If you don't know your rights, you are prone to lose them. And so I view this governor's race, first and foremost, as a fourth generation Floridian, I was born and raised in Broward County. My dad drove the bus in Broward for 10 years. My granddad was a cattle rancher, taught at FAU down in Boca. My great grandfather fought in World War I and then ran a small hotel on Fort Lauderdale Beach. And so I've seen this state up close my entire life. And what I can tell you is that people are really hurting right now. I respect the heck out of President Trump, but the trut truth is the stock market going to 7,000 or GDP coming in 2/10 of a percentage point above the Bloomberg Consensus estimate. That doesn't make it easier for folks in Pahokee to pay their bills. That doesn't make it easier for people in Navarre to pay their property tax bill. We have to do something that actually moves the needle for young families, working families, and our seniors. They've put this state on the map. Now we, we have to make the state affordable again for them.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and I think that's so well said. Especially, the point that you made, James Fishback, that, you know, you and I have had policy disagreements, but, you know, we can still have these conversations. That's what I think a governor's race really needs to be about. And those conversations, should be had publicly at public events, on media, so that people who are concerned in the state of Florida and even outside Florida, I have a national audience. And people, write in every day when we're talking about the Florida governor's race, saying, yeah, we're actually really concerned because it was Governor DeSantis who's, you know, pushing my governor to do more and who is leading the way. And so we can have policy differences, but we need to still have the conversation. And for people, and, candidates like Byron Donalds, for example, who's not having the conversations, he's just going out on, you know, some of the media talking about how much he supports President Trump. He's not actually talking about the things that matter to Floridians. They don't really know what he's gonna do. I mean, his whole campaign slogan is take Florida to the next level. And it's like, okay, bro, like, great. But do you actually have a plan to do that? And he's not sitting down with voters, he's not available. He's not coming on conservative media. That actually, matters to Florida voters. I mean, he's out, you know, on Fox News because that's, that's basically the GOP PR News. And he knows that that's a safe environment. I would love to see him on Dannah Losh's program. I'd love to see him on, you know, on Daily Wire. I'd love to see him go on, Josh Hammer show, you know, here in Florida, Daniel Horowitz, I mean, all of these people who are really concerned about genuine conservative issues and not run from those conversations. And the same thing goes for Jay Collins. I mean, if he can't come on and have a conversation because he's so concerned about hard questions, then maybe he's not ready for primetime.

James Fishback: Well, that's exactly right. I mean, if you're going to stare down. And I grew up through many hurricanes and lived through many hurricanes. Wilma, Irma, all of them. If you can't take questions from a fellow Republican, how are you going to take the stress, the anxiety, the fear, the uncertainty and the doubt that's going to afflict you in the entire state when we stare down a Category 4 storm, heaven forbid, hurling toward the west coast of Florida? And so, look, I respect Lieutenant Governor Collins. I got to be very honest with you. I'm extremely underwhelmed with his campaign, perhaps even more so than Congressman Donald's, because in just a short period of time, that Jay has been in this race, he hasn't held a single campaign event. He refuses to come on your show.

James Fishback is running for Florida governor with private sector experience

Now, I don't want to let Byron off the hook, because what on earth has Byron Donald's done? You know, my simple test to Byron is this. Remember that email that Elon Musk and President Trump sent out to the Doge people the first week of the administration? What did you get done last week? Name five things. What Congressman Donalds needs to be asked, rather charitably, is what did you get done in the last five years? We hired you. We hired you. We sent you to Congress. What on earth you get done? Because here's the truth, Jenna. If Byron Donalds had a plan to make Florida more affordable for us, he would have already done it. We sent him to D.C. for five years, and all he did was sit there like a fat idiot, trade stocks, make millions of dollars, vote with Joe Biden on the Allies act to lower the vetting requirements for the sick Afghan restauran refugees, one of whom. One of whom shot two National Guardsmen right before Thanksgiving last year. That's what Byron Donald's has been up to for five years. And so we've got to understand that this race is about people who are actually going to get the job done. You hired a guy to be a fry cook for five years. He told you he was going to cook you the best curly fries you've ever had. And for five years, he didn't do jack. And now he wants a promotion. Now he wants to be the sous chef. Absolutely not. The only person in this race, Jenna, who has private sector experience. I have no political experience. I'm not going to cash fit, catfish or gaslight, anybody. I have zero political experience. I've never been in Congress, never been in the legislature, never been a lieutenant governor. What I have is the experience of running a business for the last 10 years. Having a payroll, having to sign paychecks, having to balance a balance sheet, having to understand the inner workings of the financial system. My investment firm, Zoria, deployed $40 million of capital last year in companies that were doing the crazy thing these days, which is hiring on skill and merit as opposed to race and gender. And so I'm looking to bring my private sector business experience to succeed Governor DeSantis. Not to take Florida to the next level, but to keep Florida. Florida. Let's go back to a time, Jenna, where you could raise a family on a single income. Let's go back to a time where 30 year olds could actually buy a home and get married. Let's go back to a time when Christians didn't have to cower in fear, didn't have to recognize that. That this is not a country that's going to be surrendered to the third world, that we are the United States of America, that Florida is our home. It's not their playground. It's not their social experiment. It's not their sandbox. And that America. That America is not an economic zone or a free trade area. It is a nation built on incredible men and women who started this bold journey 250 years ago. And so I'm running for government.

Jenna Ellis: We got to take a break here. but we'll have you, we'll have you on. On the flip side of the break. We just gotta. If you can hold on. We just gotta take a break here. Otherwise it'll go too, too late. To the end of my program. but talking to James Fishback, who is candidate for governor in Florida. He will join me on the flip side of the break. We'll be right back with more.

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James Fishback is a gubernatorial candidate in the state of Florida

 : Welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.

Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And, we just had about six minutes left, but we're still here with, James Fishback, who is a gubernatorial candidate in the state of Florida. And James, we were talking before the break about how, candidates need to be willing to answer hard questions, actually have a policy plan and be willing to talk about it. So this is the hard question for you because you were talking about your experience as an entrepreneur, a, ah, founder of Azoria Capital. And a lot of Floridians genuinely are concerned about some of the legal issues that you face, because of the high profile legal disputes, primarily centering on breach of contract, confidentiality violations, also allegations of improper conduct. a federal magistrate judge had ordered you to turn over company, stock certificates and a slate of luxury purchases to the U.S. marshals by the end of the month. This is coming from Florida politics and an over $200,000 judgment to your former employer, Greenlight Capital. how do you answer the question that Florida voters have for you that if you, if all of these legal issues are happening, how can you manage, the budget and some of these other things as governor and lead the state of Florida?

James Fishback: Well, what I recognized in the world of business is that when you're somewhat successful, you do get sued by people. That's just the nature of this business. And the dispute in question was between me and my former employer. I made $100 million for him at the last investment firm investing in companies all over world. And you know, Jenna, I think when you make a mistake, you have to Own up to it. And that's what I'm going to do. You know, I should not have abruptly left my firm in the middle of the year. I should have had a conversation with my boss before I just got up and left and I didn't. And the legal disputes that resulted from me just leaving the firm and starting a competing firm and violating my non compete agreement, those are real disputes. And I recognize that I should have done better there. Now fortunately, this is largely behind us at this point. But I think what the folks of Florida recognize is they want somebody who's been through the ups and downs. My life hasn't been perfect. You know, in 2010 my family was on the verge of bankruptcy. My dad lost his entire business. We were on food stamps when I was a teenager. We almost lost our home. And so I've made and I've lost. And I can tell you it's my faith in Christ and my faith in Christ alone that has gotten me through these struggles. And so what I'm doing is I'm running for governor because I recognize that people are going to make mistakes, that we are going to struggle with paying our bills, that we are going to stare down frivolous litigation or having insurance companies or debt collectors chase after us. We need somebody, one who can sympathize, but two, who can actually empathize with those struggles. And for better or worse, I actually can.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and you know, I hear that too, that a lot of what appears in the headlines, there's often a lot more context to the conversation. I mean certainly I'm no stranger to you know, being, being hauled into court on, you know, ridiculous, ah, lawfare and you know, all of this kind of thing. And so I think that the willingness to address these things, to have an honest conversation and not be afraid of the hard questions is the ah, first step. And then, and then using that experience to be able to lead.

James Fishback is running for Florida governor

And so we just have about one more minute here, but I'll turn it back over to you, James Fishback, to let people know how they can get involved in your campaign and where they can find you because you actually have a really prolific social media following as well.

James Fishback: Well, thank you. And we're hitting the ground hard. Folks can learn more about our campaign@fishback2026.com in this economy, Jenna, I'm going to be honest. I'm not going to ask people to donate because I don't care what the stock market says or the GDP says. I know People all across the country are struggling right now. And so if you're, if you're open to supporting the campaign, the best do that is actually to volunteer. And that could even be remotely making phone calls, text messages. You can learn more about that@fishback2026.com but I think that the bigger debate that we're having right now in Florida is what kind of state do we want? Do we want a state, as Congressman Donald says, to make us the financial capital of the world? Do we want, as Congressman Donald says, to speed up the construction of AI data centers? Or are we generally happy with the way things are? Do we want to protect cattle, citrus, agriculture, the wildlife corridor? Do we want to protect wild Florida, the Everglades, our slow paced way of life, that we watch college football on Saturday and we worship an awesome God on Sunday? I would be, if elected, I'd be the sixth governor in my family, the most recent of whom William Mead Fishback was the governor of Arkansas in the 1890s. And so I'm running to be the governor of a state that my family has known for four generations. And it'd be the honor of a life of m time not to have anyone's vote, Jenna, but for them to hire me, I'm asking them to hire me to be their governor, to wake.

Jenna Ellis: Up every single day and to James fish back. We got to end it there. But as always, you can reach me and my team. Jennaafr.net. PreBorn's whole mission is to rescue babies from abortion and lead their families to Christ. Last year, PreBorn's network of clinics saw 8,900 mothers come to Christ. Christ. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com afr.

In this compelling episode of Jenna Ellis in the Morning, Jenna discusses the life-saving mission of PreBorn, highlighting how your contributions can help rescue babies through free ultrasounds. She emphasizes the profound impact of just $28 in doubling a baby's chance at life. The conversation transitions into a deep examination of the ongoing situation in Minneapolis, where Jenna encourages listeners to approach current events through a biblical worldview, discussing the role of government and civil authority. Joined by renowned apologist Alex McFarland, they explore the alarming trend of a post-truth society and the challenges of engaging in rational discourse amidst relativism. Alex shares insights on the importance of objective truth and the moral foundations that have historically united America. As they navigate through complex issues surrounding truth, belief, and the role of Christians in today's culture, Jenna and Alex remind listeners of the necessity of standing firm in their convictions and advocating for what is right.