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American Family Radio takes your Bible questions live on American Family Radio

>> Bert Harper: The Bible. It's the word of God. Sharper than any two edged sword. This sacred book is living and active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness. Stay with American Family Radio for the next hour as we study God's word and take your Bible questions.

Today on Exploring the Word, we are studying the much More chapter of Romans

Welcome to Exploring the Word. Today on Exploring the Word, we are studying the much More chapter of the Book of Romans. Well, you wonder where that is. It's chapter five. Matter of fact, when you start reading chapter five and he starts off how good it is to be justified and he gives all the things that's there, then he'll say, but much more, much more. In other words, we got more in Christ than we could ever dream or think of. This is Burt harper along with Dr. Alex McFarland and it's our joy to be with you. We thank you for joining us. And, and Alex, again, I know we're saying it, we're repeating ourself. You get through with some great stuff in the Book of Romans and guess what's waiting? Some more great stuff. And that's what you find in chapter five, isn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, it surely is. I love Romans, Chapter five. And we invite everybody to turn there if you've got a copy of God's Word, the New Testament book of Romans. And we are so honored you're listening as we embark on a brand new week of exploring the Word.

Alex: Bert will preach on Romans 5 this Sunday at Low Country Community Church

And Bert, I've got to ask this before we get into Romans 5. Were you in a pulpit Sunday?

>> Bert Harper: I was. I was at Ozark Baptist Church where I'm interim pastor. I'm going on. Well, I'm closing in on four months. I've been there, had a great day honoring the graduates and a challenge to them and the whole church. How about you?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, I was at Mount Pleasant, formerly United Methodist Church, now just Mount Pleasant Church there in the Greensboro, North Carolina area. And I've been helping them out, when I'm able, along with a dear brother. Daryl Davis is probably listening now, just a wonderful colleague in the ministry, Reverend Darrell Davis. And they've, brought him on part time, but, this upcoming Sunday, and maybe I'll mention it again later on, in the week, but, I will be at Low Country Church in Myrtle Beach, Low Country Community Church, this upcoming Sunday in Myrtle Beach. And in addition to preaching, I'm kind of promoting our speaker series with Dr. Gary Chapman, who wrote the Five Love Languages, and Charlie Kirk later this summer. But Wednesday I will be with their men's group, They've got a men's Bible study at Lowcountry Community Church, 7am this Wednesday. And so if you happen to be in the Myrtle beach area, Wednesday morning for the men, Sunday morning in the service, Low Country Community Church.

>> Bert Harper: But, Alex, I just gotta ask, is. Is that, you know, kind of a bad name, low country, or is that connected with South Carolina? The upper part. And the lower part is.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, you know, we're down here at sea level.

>> Bert Harper: You know, the low country.

>> Alex McFarland: They call that the low country. That's right.

>> Bert Harper: I love that. Yeah, that's neat.

>> Alex McFarland: Exactly. Exactly. You know, I've taught out in Colorado quite a bit, and Charis, Bible College where I've taught is two miles above sea level. And now, when we're down here doing our speaker series, I'm like, at sea level. So I guess I'm both extremes. But, you know, the word of God is so powerful and strong, and what a blessing it is. No matter where you are, no matter what, what the audience is. The word of God is sharp and powerful. And, you know, Romans, chapter five. one of the first parts of the scripture that I really drilled in on as a brand new believer was the book of Romans. And I'll tell you why, because I bought a book I'll never forget. I was at a used bookstore. This is, you know, many years ago. but I saw a book by Billy Graham called Peace with God. And the title comes right out of this verse. Romans 5:1. Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we also have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand and rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Bert, if you look at verse two, access to Jesus by faith, and it's through his grace. Now, what is the result? We stand, we rejoice, we have hope because we are secure with Christ. And I said this last week, and I'll throw it to you. people achieve things, people acquire things, people make money. Life has a lot of accomplishments. But folks, there is nothing more precious than nothing more valuable, nothing more significant that you'll ever experience than this peace with God.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: Alex, that's everything it is.

>> Bert Harper: Now, again, Romans is a document that is so sound, it goes, it's like a judicial, I would say, pronouncement concerning our salvation. And from chapter four, there's a transition. Notice how he ends. Who raised us because of our justification, he jumps. What we know is chapter five. Now, originally it was just, one Letter continual without the divisions. But it jumps to chapter five with therefore being justified by faith. So he, he continues this justification thought. And when he starts this justification, he, we have, notice that word we. We have. And it continues all the way through verse 11 with the blessings that we have in order because we've been justified, because we've been made right with God. And you've already mentioned the first one. We have three right in the first two chapters. Peace with God.

Alex: Without Jesus Christ, there is no hope, Bert

Okay, that's the first thing, Alex, and you said it well, man, I'm at peace with God. The. Would you say the account is settled. That way, you know, there's nothing.

>> Alex McFarland: Okay.

>> Bert Harper: And then we have access by faith. And then thirdly, we have hope. We stand in this and we rejoice in the hope. Without, Christ, there is no hope. And then not only that, and that's what it says in verse three. You can go on down the list all the way through verse 11. And there's at least seven different blessings that we have through Jesus Christ through justification. God's love is poured in us. that's one of them. And we'll get to the rest. But I love verse nine and ten. And I'm not suggesting I skip the rest between three and that. But we have a future hope. And so the things that we gain when we come to Jesus Christ in this relationship, that is so real, being justified, Alex, it's things that the law could not give. Amen. And no, there was none of this in the law that you couldn't get right with God through the law. and so he is sharing with us the joy, the blessings of knowing Jesus Christ as savior and Lord. And he documents it here in chapter 5, verses 1 through 11.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, Bert, several years ago there were a number of kind of, celebrity Christians. Among them, Josh Harris. He was an author. I had interviewed him 20 years ago on Focus on the Family. But, several of these people left Christianity and they, they coined the term exvangelicals. And that was very sad because, I really believe if you have had an encounter with the living Jesus, you would never want to walk away from him. But I'll never forget one of the former Christians, now atheists, said, well, all these bad things happened. And I'll never forget this quote. Christianity just didn't work for me anymore. And I remember thinking, okay, even if you're a born again believer, bad things can happen. Even if you're a, Christian, in a fallen world, there can be, you know, trouble and Pain and problems, Bert, maybe even somebody listening right now is going through some hard times. The beautiful thing about Christianity, though, Christianity, is about the risen Jesus. Christianity is about the fact that the Son of God paid our sin debt on the cross. And by putting our faith in Jesus, the account is cleared and our guilt is washed away. but even in pain. And only the Christian worldview can promise this to you, that there is purpose in pain. nobody likes to suffer. None of us like hard times. But yet, if we lean into Jesus and give it to Christ, we learn new things about his faithfulness, we grow, we mature, and we're going to get rewarded in heaven. Now, that being the case, look at this. In, verse three, not only. So, not only just joy over salvation, although certainly that's huge. Verse two, we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. We're going to see the Lord one day. We're going to get a glorified body. Amen. Amen. And not only this verse three, but we glory in tribulations also, knowing that tribulation worketh patience. And patience, experience. and by the way, the word experience here, the word means proven character, beautiful thing, and experience, hope. And hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost, which is in us. All right, Bert, only Christianity can say, hey, yes, there are tribulations, but that's growing within me. Patience. And patience is experience and hope. I mean, the atheistic worldview says, hey, stuff happens. It's a fallen evolutionary world. Eastern thought says, oh, it's just an illusion. Christianity alone said no tribulations. And, the deep valleys, they are real, but it's part of a fallen world. But God's redemptive power is so strong that if we go through our pain hand in hand with Jesus, we grow, we mature, we are rewarded, and we learn things about the faithfulness of God we may not have discerned any other way.

>> Bert Harper: Alex, that is so well put. And there's a hidden word. I think that it's the secret to understanding this. And it's in verse three, knowing. Okay, I think those. All those ex evangelicals that you were talking about, m. I think they probably had a misinformation concerning the Christian walk. Okay, If I trust Christ, then it's going to be smooth sailing. No, Jesus said, in this world you're going to have what? Tribulation. There's that word. Trials, difficulties. They come with living in a fallen world, no matter who you are. It Rains on the just and the unjust. Does it rain good or bad? The answer is yes. Too much, not enough.

>> Alex McFarland: Wow. Yeah, that's a great observation, Bert.

>> Bert Harper: And so when you see this, notice what it says. Knowing that if we know this and really saturate, I think this is important, that we set ourselves up, for that purpose. God's purpose for us is that he would be glorified in our lives, that we would be more like him. That's what Romans 8. Later on that he gets out in 28 and 29. We know that God works all things together for good to those who love God and are called according to his purpose, that we might do what you go on. Read verse 29. And it says, conformed to his image. Alex. Without tribulation, we would never be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. and some of those difficulties are far bigger than we could ever handle except Christ in us the hope of glory.

Bert Harper: The Christian life is not a sprint

So this knowledge is perseverance or endurance. We develop endurance. We run the race, cross country, do that marathon. The Christian life is not a sprint. But I think a lot of those that dropped out, like Demas. I believe Demas dropped out, having loved the present world. listen, it is that they do not see the endurance that we run the race that God has set before us. And the ultimate goal is that we have this godly Christian character, as you said, approved character, that God approves it. Now, here's the key, and I'll throw it back to you. God already knows if it's real for us, but it shows us if we're real or not. Those tribulations help us to know. I pray those who are listening can know that they've trusted Christ.

>> Alex McFarland: Indeed. This is exploring the Word. That's bert Harper. Alex McFarland here. We're in Romans 5. Got a brief break. Stay with us. We're going to Continue In Romans 5, God's Word and then your questions and calls. So it's a great day on exploring the word. Stay with us.

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>> Alex McFarland: Did he move every mountain? Did he part every sea? Yes, he did so yes he can. Did he dim? Did he deliver me? Yes, yes, he did. He delivered us. You know.

Sometimes a Christian goes through tribulations, it may be preparation for future ministry

Welcome back to Exploring the Word. Alex here and Bert, and, we're very blessed to be able to go over the scriptures with you every day on the American Family Radio Network. But we're also blessed with Brent Austin picking out really good music. And, for those watching online, the behind me is Alexa the cat. I just happened to notice that I'm getting photobombed by Alexa the cat. But. Hey, Bert, I gotta share a verse before the break. We were talking about how even through tribulations, you know, the Lord is faithful and God grows us and matures us, shows himself faithful. Whenever we talk about this, I want to share second Corinthians 1, verse 4. Because, every now and then people say, you know, I don't understand it. You know, I've tried to follow the Lord and this or that happened, and it's not been easy. Why do you think this is? Okay, The God of all comfort says, 2nd Corinthians 1:4, God who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble by the same comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. And so, Bert, one last little thought. And we've said this many times, but oftentimes trouble is preparation for future ministry. Because you can come along somebody down the road and you can legitimately say, hey, friend, I was there. And let me tell you, Jesus carried me through it. And that we comfort those with the same comfort wherewith we ourselves were comforted of God. And you say, yeah, but, well, I didn't ask for that. Well, I understand, but we're not, we're not the leader, we're the follower. And the Lord knows in his wisdom, he knows where we are. He knows what we can go through with his help, and he knows down the road how he might use us for ministry. And so, Bert, isn't it fair to say sometimes when we go through. When a Christian goes through tribulations, among everything else, it may be preparation for future ministry?

>> Bert Harper: Let me just share with you. That's exactly right. And guess what? You're going to go through that stuff whether you're saved or lost. Okay? when you are lost, you lose the purpose of it. You lose the opportunity for God to use it in your life for those others that are comforted. Let me share this with you. Pastoring for 40 years, okay? I've been in emergency rooms. I've been intensive care rooms so many times, I. I could. I lost count. But I would be there as their pastor. And they were always. I can't think of a time that anyone was not thankful. Thank you, Brother Burt. Always been Brother Burt, not Brother Harper. thank you, Brother Burt, for being here. And I say, man, I wanted to be here with you, but I've been talking with them, ready to pray with them, and there'll be someone else that'll walk through the door or walk in that room. And all of a sudden, Bert Harper, Pastor Harper, he. He just blends into the wall. And I look to see who in the world is coming in this room. I can tell you who it was. It was someone that had gone through what these people were going through now, and they knew they had gone through it, and they had come, to comfort them in the same comfort they'd been comforted with. And all of a sudden, they. Brother Harper, with his knowledge of scripture, with his experience of ministry, wasn't that important. What was important is those people who had gone through this difficult stuff and survived. Those people would turn to them in a second, and you could see the ministry. So God doesn't waste anything, Alex. He uses this tribulation, this difficulty for his glory and ultimately for our betterment. Listen, it is true. And so here it is. This is what a blessing of being justified by God. He gives us purpose in our whole life. He even gives purpose in the difficulties. Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Well said. And, hopefully, no matter what you might be going through, folks, that's, that's a consolation. God is with you. God knows what's going on, and there is a purpose in it. There's nothing wasted if we allow Jesus Christ to be the Lord of our life. And it says in verse six, boy, this is so wonderful. For when we were yet without strength. In due time, Christ died for the ungodly. we were Helpless, hopeless, lost. remember, in due time, in the fullness of time, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, to redeem those that were under the law. that's Galatians 4. 4. Well, I love this idea. In verse 6, at just the right time, Christ was crucified and rose again. And at just the right time, you became aware of Jesus. Remember, Jesus looked over Jerusalem. And this is a key concept. I want you to think about this, please. Jesus, you know, said of Jerusalem, he said, you did not recognize the time of your visitation. See, in the life of that nation, and I think in the life of every person, there is a time of God's visitation. Maybe even right this minute, you're thinking about where you stand with God. And that's the Holy Spirit calling out to you. It is. And so don't miss the time of your visitation. By that I mean, of course, when you become aware of Jesus and you realize that you really do need him in your life, and you realize it's time to get right with God and. And turn from sin and be saved or turn and come back to Jesus. Bert, I think that concept of verse six, in due time, or the time of the visitation, the time to turn to Christ is the minute you're aware of him and you know that you need him in your life. Because we have no guarantee of tomorrow, but we do have this moment.

>> Bert Harper: Nobody knows what a day may bring. That's the whole idea. We don't know about tomorrow, but we know who holds tomorrow. And so we trust God. When? Now? Today's the day.

Paul says Jesus died for us while we were still sinners

Because for scarcely for a righteous man will one die. Yet perhaps for a good man, someone would even dare to die. Listen. Okay, man. Yeah, foxhole, buddies, you know? And, that was a good man. They're side by side, fighting for one another. And one sees something, and he goes over to try to knock him out of the way, and he gets shot. He's given his life for someone that is worthwhile, profitable to him. But verse eight. But God. Don't you love those two words? But God.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: M. But God demonstrates his love toward us, that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. That is the love of God. Now, what is going to happen here? He's put the love of God in us. Now, Alex, again, I don't want to take away from verse 8, but I do want to make that point. The love of God, that he demonstrated his own love for dying for us while we were sinners. God puts that Kind of love in our heart for others, that we want to live our lives not as hypocrites, but as godly. We want to live our lives as demonstrating the love of God. But here it is. I love that God died. Jesus died at the right time, in the right place. He died that we sinners could have life. But God demonstrates his own love toward us. His own love, not someone else's. It's own love to us. toward us. Alex, that. Yeah, that's the love of God, isn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, it is. And you know, like in verse seven, scarcely for a righteous man would one die. You know, maybe you've heard somebody said something like, you know, oh, so and so is such a great friend, you know, he would take a bullet for me. You know, you've heard people said like that. And you know, that that would be a rare thing, what Paul is saying here. If somebody would lay down their life for another, that would be rare. But even if they did, as altruistic as that might be, it really wouldn't accomplish anything. But here's the beauty of the blessing of justification. Here's the thing. But God commended his love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us much more than now being justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through, through him. For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. So what it's saying is, not only was Jesus willing to die for you, and we weren't good, we were sinners. Paul says, rarely would somebody lay down their life for a righteous person, but Christ laid down his life for unrighteous persons, myself included. And the beautiful thing is, by his death and resurrection, we are saved from wrath. Praise the Lord. Verse 11. Not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we now have received the atonement or the reconciliation. Reconciled back to God. Bert just makes you want to say amen and run a lap around the room, doesn't it?

>> Bert Harper: It really does. Alex, you just read that now. Notice these, these terms. Much more. what he says in verses 1 through 8 is awesome, but he says, but I want to tell you some more, much more. And he tells us about the future we have notice it says in verse 10, we shall be saved by his life. In other words, here we are. Our salvation is three parts regeneration immediately, sanctification continually, but glorification, ultimately we will see that we will be there. Glorified bodies with Christ. And that's the whole idea. That's the much more. We don't only get life now that God is with us, never forsake us, go with us through the tribulation, the difficulties with purpose. But we have a future hope in him. a future hope. And then it climaxes, as you said, with reconciliation, verse 11. Don't you love that term? And in the new King James, it says, not only that, in other words, Paul is saying, as if that were not enough.

>> Alex McFarland: But wait, there's more.

>> Bert Harper: There's more. I will put icing on the cake. it was good. But we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have what received this reconciliation. We're reconciled with God. Now I want to go back and see if you agree with me. I think he's made a full circle. Okay, going back to verse one. Justified by faith, we have peace with God. That peace of God means we've been reconciled with God. So here we've made the complete circle. Doesn't mean we go back to where we started, but we always go back to that place and remember it. You remember, was it. Jacob needed to go back to Bethel so he could remember what God had done there, you know, and remember all that God has done. There's a song I remember I was in Michigan when I first heard it. I, was at a camp there, and Erwin Lutzer was speaking, matter of fact.

>> Alex McFarland: Oh, wow.

>> Bert Harper: And it was a song we will remember. We will remember the things done by his hand. And it started listing all the things in this song. By the way, Brent, we need to put that one on there, too. We will remember the, works of his hands.

Paul says we continually to have peace with God through the Holy Spirit

And here I think what he's doing, he's making it360 back to this peace of God being justified, being reconciled with God and all of this. And guess what? We're saved one time. But we continually to have peace with God. We have continually access with God. We have the hope at God that puts us through the tribulation and the difficulties. God's love in us is being poured out in us through the Holy Spirit, and we have a future hope. Alex. No wonder, when Paul comes to chapter four and he talks about we've been justified, as he ends, chapter four and we start chapter five, he says, therefore, having been justified by faith, let me tell you what my God has done. So, Alex, we can rejoice in that, can't we?

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. We can certainly rejoice in that.

We needed salvation because we've done sinful things, Alex says

And, moving on into verse 12 and following. This is a key to understanding the universe, really, because. And we've said this. It is a legal universe, because God's universe operates by laws. You know, there are physical laws, the law of gravity, and the laws of nature and how things work. Well, verse 12. Wherefore, as by one man, sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men. For that all have sinned. Okay, we're sinner. We've said it. we're sinners by birth and sinners by choice. We needed salvation because we've done sinful things. We've known the right and done the wrong, but we. We needed salvation because we are the children of Adam and Eve who sinned. Now, scholars use a term called penal substitution. Now. Now it means when. When Jesus died for us, the guilt was put on Jesus. He was our substitute. But here's another word, and this is why we needed to be born again. Penal unrighteousness. See, we had the. The guilt of Adam and Eve imputed to us because we're the children of the human race. We're humans. We have a sin nature. Then we do sinful deeds. So that's why we were sinners by birth. And we're sinful, guilty because of our deeds. As by one man, sin entered the world. That was Adam, but through one man, the son of God, Jesus. Forgiveness is possible for all who will believe.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Alex, again, what you have in 12 through 21 is the reason. What we have in verses 1 through 11, all these blessings, is because of what Jesus did. Did. And let me make this statement. The law was temporary. Grace has been eternal. Adam was saved by grace. Abraham, that. The argument's already been made earlier that is saved by grace. Here, Adam brought that sin. One man. And by the way, The. The. The one. The. The word one or the number one is used 11 times in verses 12 through 21. In other words, by one man, sin entered, but by one man, sin was overcome. And peace reigns when you trust him, Alex. Jesus, let me put it this way. We gained much more in Christ than we lost in Adam.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: Well said. Well said.

>> Bert Harper: Hey, that number, by the way, is triple. 858-98-8840. Give us a call.

>> Alex McFarland: The political climate in America has changed. We've been given a reprieve, and we have to work together to take advantage of that momentum and effect even more cultural and spiritual change. We can rebuild America. The American Family association is working to do just that. And when you join. With your support, it helps maximize the impact. As our thanks, we'll give you a DVD of biblical financial advice from Rob west called Biblical Stewardship. Please visit afa.net and get started today. I can't count the times m I've called your names on broken night and you showed up and patched me up like you do. Every time I get amnesia I forget that you keep coming around. There ain't no way you ever let me down.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. I'm going to stop it there. There's no way he would ever let us down. Praise God, that number and the phone lines are empty. So, man, it would be a great time for you to call and get your question in. That number is 888-589-8840. Triple 858-98840. Alex, they may have been like me. If I were following along and I had my Bible open and I was listening to us. And not because we're so good about it, but because what chapter five says, I would just read that and keep on reading it. You mean that's me? That I get that blessing? I get that blessing. I get that the answer is yes. His blessing. what is that song? Count them one by one and it you'll be amazed what God has done. Well, okay, Alex, I don't hear. There he is.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. Can you hear me now?

>> Bert Harper: Yeah, I can now. Go ahead.

>> Alex McFarland: I'm here. Yeah. And by the way, the number, if you've got a Bible question, it's triple 858-98-8840.

Bert: Verse 14 says sin is imputed where there is no law

That's 888-589-8840. any Bible question you'd care to ask? We'll do our best to give you a biblical answer. But, Bert, it says that sin, is not imputed where there is no law. But as we know, God's law is known everywhere, written on the heart. So sin is imputed. All have sinned, and deep down we really do know it. Verse 14 says, nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses. And. But it says Adam's transgression. Adam is the figure of him who was to come. Jesus. Now, tomorrow we'll get more into it. How Jesus is the second Adam. And in Christ we're not dead, but made alive. We're not guilty, but we're justified in Christ.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Alex.

Let's go to Tom in Texas. Tom, thank you for calling

Hey, after I said the lines were open, they. Not anymore. Let's go to Tom in Texas. Tom, thank you for calling.

>> Caroline: Hey, guys. How y' all doing? God bless you.

>> Bert Harper: Thank you for calling. Tom. go ahead Man.

Tom: Was Melchizedek the preincarnate appearance of Christ

>> Caroline: Okay, I have one about. Did Michel's die?

>> Alex McFarland: Oh, Melchizedek, the ah, priest. I, believe he would have died. Now, it doesn't really say because, there's, you know, speculation. Was it a pre incarnate appearance of Christ? you know, let me say this. Theophanies which was a pre incarnate appearance of Christ did not last forever. I mean, there were times in the Old Testament where like the third man in the fire. I'm sorry, the fourth man in the fire. So if Melchizedek was a pre incarnate appearance of Christ, obviously Jesus would have gone back to heaven because he was incarnate and born in the Bethlehem manger. Bert, I tend to believe that, that Melchizedek was a man, a ah, godly man, there in the time that God was calling forth Abraham. But if indeed Melchizedek was a human, a godly human, yeah, he would have eventually died because he was.

>> Bert Harper: Mortal, doing a simple if man. Yes. If Jesus. Yes. On the cross, you know. You know, but he wouldn't have died in that, in that form of Melchizedek. And this is one of those things. I honestly believe people is going to give their opinion and we just can't know for sure. Alex, you know. Yeah, I think that's it. That's one of those questions. But we know the ministry of Melchizedek and we know Jesus was a priest after the order of Melchizedek. That's the whole idea. Thank you, Tom.

Bert says Adam was saved by grace through faith

Great call. Let's go to Virginia Nanette. Thank you for calling.

>> Alex McFarland: Hello.

>> Bert Harper: How are you doing? Well, go right ahead. you just said a minute ago that, Adam was saved by grace. Yes. So do you believe he's in heaven? I do. I do believe Adam and Eve both are there.

>> Alex McFarland: Alex.

>> Bert Harper: Jesus, what did he do? He killed an animal as a sacrifice and then he clothed him in that animal that was sacrificed. I do believe Adam was a believer. Go ahead, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, I agree because, for one thing, Adam and Eve consented to being clothed in the covering that God offered them. And it was accounted to them as righteousness that the Old Testament saints, and I agree with Bert, Adam and Eve and all the Old Testament saints. Now, Cain was not, but they were saved. They were justified in the sight of God by faith. Now, faith in the Messiah that would come, we have faith in the Messiah that did come. Same Jesus, just two different sides of the cross. Faith which means trust and trust which births obedience. Doesn't It, Bert.

>> Bert Harper: It really does. And there's no other way that man could be saved by keeping the law. The law was given in order for us to know that we could not be perfect. One of the reasons salts as a schoolmaster. Alex, in school, did you ever have a pre test, college or seminary?

>> Alex McFarland: A pretest before the test?

>> Bert Harper: Yes. And they do that. So you do what? Know what you don't know. Okay. What you don't have. And. And the law was given so we could know. We don't measure up. We, can't measure up. And the gr. If it weren't for grace by grace through faith, there would be no one saved.

>> Alex McFarland: And, Bert, let me say this, too. If salvation were by keeping a punch list of the law, there's no relationship in that. It would just be completely transactional. And God made us to have relationship with him. that's. You know, when I was 21 and I got saved, I was happy because I had security in Christ. And whenever I died, I would go to heaven, not hell. And that's wonderful. And certainly that is a big part of it. But, Bert, I got to tell you the greatest thing about salvation. Having a relationship with the God who loves me.

>> Bert Harper: And you can have that relationship right now by saying, God, I know I'm lost. There's no hope in me. I can't do enough. I can't give enough. But I know Jesus came and he lived a perfect life. He went to the cross and died and was buried and rose again the third day. And the Bible says that if I know I'm a sinner and I confess it, and I know that Jesus Christ died on the cross and he loves me, and. And I know he gave himself for me. I'm trusting him, not myself. I'm asking him to be Lord of my life. If you do that right now, I want to tell you, you can, you can start the greatest journey you would ever travel. I pray you would do that today. Let's go to Arkansas and talk to John. John, thank you for calling.

Alex McFarland: When we try to hold people accountable, people get defensive

>> Speaker D: Good afternoon, guys.

>> Bert Harper: Good afternoon.

>> Speaker D: I've got a. I've got a question. It's something I've kind of pondered with. I've kind of struggled with, with, a lot of times when people, you know, as Christians, when we try to hold people accountable many, times, it often comes across, or the person that you're trying to hold accountable, to their salvation and what they claim as a Christian, a, lot of times they will get defensive and they start immediately throwing out, you're judging me, you're judging me. You're not supposed to judge. there's a New Testament tells us that we're not supposed to judge until we remove the log from our eyes so that we can clearly see the splinter that's in our brother's eye. but I'm just kind of curious, where did we kind of. I know we're supposed to use discernment to do this, but when we're in the face of trying to discern through that and knowing that somebody's going to be defensive, where do we cross the line of, okay, now I'm judging or I'm still trying to hold somebody accountable.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. John, great question. Because you hear me talk about accountability a lot. I do. Listen, sometimes the person you talking to, do they want to be accountable? That'll be the whole idea. If they don't want to be accountable, they will, they will justify what they're doing or they will call you a, hypocrite for judging them and calling it judging. But if you go to someone in love, speak the truth in love and say, John, concerned, I don't know all the reasons, I don't know everything you do, but, would you look at this with me and see what they do if they turn a quick no away from you? I don't know what you do. Accountability is a two way street, isn't it, Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: It really is. It really is. And you know, whenever I have people say, and Matthew 7 is the favorite verse of people, you know, judge not, that you be not judged. Well, that's true. in and of ourself, we are not in a position to pass moral judgment on anybody. But the word of God certainly is. And when we, you know, the big issues of our times, whether it's human sexuality or the sacredness of life or, you know, anti Semitism is wrong. Homosexuality is wrong. People say, well, who are you to judge? And I always say, well, I'm nobody. But the word of God is clear. adultery is wrong. Homosexuality is wrong. if you're involved in sin, you need to get right with Jesus. That's not Alex McFarland's opinion. That's just what the word of God says.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. And the word of God is settled in heaven. And again, if they want to be hear you, they will. And that's what the Bible says, you know, that you've helped a sinner or someone turn from their way. So I appreciate that. I hope God will give you grace and discernment on this accountability.

Alex: Some people say we inherit Adam's sin nature, but others disagree

Let's go to Chris in Ohio. Chris, thank you for calling.

>> Caroline: Ah, thanks for taking my call. I really agree with what you just said there, Bert, about the accountability. The person. Person has got to be accountable. Want to be accountable. But I just wanted to add that. But I just wanted to say I've encountered several people that it's not fair that we inherit Adam's sin nature, but those same people have no problem with Christ being their substitute for their sin penalty. And I just. Yeah, I don't know what. You know, you probably heard that before, too.

>> Bert Harper: Yeah. Hey, Chris. Alex, answer you quick, a little longer than I am, but I just want to tell you what you read in romans, chapter five, verses 12 through 21, is like the. Is the history. It's the basis of it. And even if they don't get Adam's first sin, listen, here's what I do. We're a sinner by nature, and also we're a sinner by choice. Do you think you'd have been any different if you'd have been in the. You'd been any different if you'd been in the garden, Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, you know, I've had people say, you know, it's not fair that, because of Adam and Eve, I'm guilty. And I say, well, you might not think that it's fair, but it is reality. but the other thing. Because here's the thing I said earlier. We live in a legal universe. There's cause and effect. Ah, you might not like gravity or have even heard of Isaac Newton, but if you jump off of a high place, you will hit the ground. But here's the thing. even if it weren't for the guilt of Adam and Eve, we still would need a savior. Because all have sinned. Everybody has done bad things. You know, that godly grandmother that you revere, and I think most of us had a godly grandmother, hopefully, too, but yet even they are sinners. So we need a savior. I mean, we do. We, need a savior. And so I, always try to pray for people, try to help people understand, you know, bristling, and pushing back against reality. in philosophy, it's called a counterfactual. I've had people say, but what if this, but what if that. And I understand such speculation can be intriguing. But let's not live in the counterfactuals. Let's live in reality. The reality is we need forgiveness. But the even greater reality, God loves us and he will give it.

>> Bert Harper: If we ask about everybody being a sinner. listen, Martin Lowry hit it when he wrote Mary. Did you know when he said, the child that you deliver will soon deliver you? Even Mary. listen. Needed a savior because of sin. That's how we are. And we praise God. We do have that Savior.

Clay in Texas says he prayed in Jesus name when he was young

Well, we want to go to Clay in Texas. Clay, thank you for calling, man.

>> Caroline: You guys are just. The Holy Spirit's working through y' all today. Just thank you for what y' all are doing. It's powerful. But listen to. I haven't had a chance to catch you. And, that's why I probably should be a little more prepared for this call. But I. Man, I. I got in the truck at just the right time. So, anyhow, so when I was a kid, and I've called y' all about this before, I'm just trying to understand it still to this day. My dad died right in front of me, and I'm m doing cpr, and I. I was raised, you know, in what we probably call a Bible church now. Just read the Bible, and that's Christianity. And, anyhow, I remember saying, oh, in Jesus name. Everybody in my church at the end of the prayer says, in Jesus name. Well, that ought to work. Well, it didn't work. And, you know, I thought about that later as an adult. you know, I had a check in my spirit. That's. It wasn't a magic incantation, but I. You know, at a time of desperation, I tried it anyway. It hurt my faith for years, man. And, not only that, the world around me really fell apart in a lot of ways. There's a long story to that. anyhow, I just didn't know what y' all thought. I kind of have what I think that might mean now, but I didn't know if y' all had any thoughts on that or ever thought about it.

>> Bert Harper: Clay, thank you, man. I want to tell you, I had to make that transition in Jesus name, and you hit it. It's not an incantation. It's not a magic word. It's not a magic formula. It's authority. God, I can ask you this request that you may or may not grant, on the authority of who Jesus Christ is. Alex, take it further.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. And in John 15 and 16, three times, Jesus says, if you ask in my name, according to my will, I will do it. And, you know, a dear friend from Biola University, Craig Hazen, has a sermon he preaches where he basically says, and I agree with him. If this is for the Great Commission, the glory of God, the salvation of souls, and we are asking in Jesus name, the sky's the limit. Let's pray some big prayers because God is willing for the world to know and people to be saved and so. Right, Bert? It's the authority of the name of the Son of God who has deputized his church to preach and evangelize.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. I agree. The Holy Spirit of God. there's just certain days when you know that you know God was using and blessing. Thank God for today, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. folks, thank you for listening to Exploring the Word in the American Family Radio Network. We hope you'll tell everybody about the great, great programming of afr. Stay tuned to this station. But most of all, tell everybody about Jesus.

>> Bert Harper: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.