Transcript

American Family Radio takes your Bible questions live on American Family Radio

>> Bert Harper: The Bible. It's the word of God. Sharper than any two edged sword. This sacred book is living and active.

>> Alex McFarland: And contains all that's needed for life and godliness.

>> Bert Harper: Stay with American Family Radio for the next hour as we study God's word and take your Bible questions.

Burt Harper and Alex McFarland discuss Romans in Exploring the Word

Welcome to Exploring the word. Romans, chapter one, verse 22. I think, could be put on. A lot of people that are in public eye these days professing to be wise. They became fools. This is Burt Harper and Alex McFarland and it's our joy to be with you this time Monday through Friday here. And we certainly enjoy studying the word of God. We're in the book of Romans. And Alex, again, we told people when we go through chapter one, mostly in part of chapter two, even three kind of, there's nothing to skip. You got to look at each theme because it's so important. And that's the whole book of Romans in reality, isn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, it really is. It really is. And Bert, it's great to be with you and have Brent and the crew running the audio and everybody listening. And I'm loving the book of Romans. And hey, you know, Romans 1:2 talks about sin. And we read this yesterday. The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness. You know, the story is told of Abraham Lincoln once walking down the street and he had a son on each side. And the sons were fighting and crying. And, somebody said, what's wrong? And he said, what's wrong with my boys? The same thing that's wrong with the whole wide world. Sin.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: And you know, it's really true. I got to tell you one other story, and I've told it so many times, and forgive my repetition, but, Vance Havner told the story. He was a great evangelist. You all know Vance Havner. Bert and I count him as a spiritual hero. But, he was lecturing at a seminary and talking about that we were born with a sin nature. And somebody said, Dr. Havner, original, sin, a sin nature. I find that hard to swallow. And Vance Havner said, well, you don't have to swallow it. It's already in you. You're born with it. And we need redemption from the sin that we have. The inherited guilt of Adam and Eve.

>> Bert Harper: And we're really going to get into this. And I'm not jumping ahead, I'm just making an observation, what you said when you get into chapter two and we find folks start feeling pretty good about themselves because they don't think they're as bad as the people. In chapter one, Paul, Paul puts them in their place. And listen, we're sinners. We're everyone. And there are some sins that have greater consequences, do more damage than you ever believe. But we're all under sin. And here in chapter one again, verse 22, it just really intrigues me. Professing to be wise, they became fools. My dad told me early on, he said, son, some of the great, greatest fools in the world are those that think they're smart. And that is so true, Alex. And so here he's building the case. when they denied God, they didn't recognize his God. They were not thankful. And then in verse 21, building up to verse 22, they became futile in their thoughts. They were empty, you know, they could not, there was nothing there. And they in their foolish heart was darkened. So here it is, the thoughts and the heart. Here they go. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he. So the heart we're talking about here is man's mind, will and emotions, his deep seatedness of who he is. And so your thinking and how you respond, Alex, is so vital. So, we better get our thinking straight. and here he said man, they think they're wise, denying God, going their way, them becoming their own God, but in reality they're fools. Isn't that basically what Paul is declaring?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, you know, if, if there was a life verse for many an American university, it would be Romans 1:22, you know, profess, you know, boasting about how wise they, they were. They were really fools. Let me read a little that follows. And ch, they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds and four footed beasts and creeping things. So they're worshiping creation rather than the creator. Wherefore, verse 24. And this is really, if you think about it, it's frightening. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lust of their own hearts to dishonor their own bodies between themselves. Who are these people? Verse 25. They changed the truth of God into a lie and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator who is blessed forever. Amen. So Bert, there's ingratitude, there's idolatry, there is immorality and the desire for immoral, gratifications. And so verse 24, God gave them up. God let them go and let Me just say this, folks, whether it's our culture at large or an individual, or even perhaps somebody listening, the Holy Spirit of God convicting you, weighing heavy on your conscience, you don't want to lose that now. You want to respond to it and turn to Christ. But, Bert, it should really terrify anybody. The prospect that the Holy Spirit would one day stop calling God gave them. If somebody is bound and determined to pursue sin, and ultimately the Spirit of God says, okay, I'm, sorry, but if that's how you're going to be, I'm going to let you go be that way. We don't want the Holy Spirit to abandon us, do we?

>> Bert Harper: We really do not. That is hopelessness. I'll put it that way, you know, and when the Holy Spirit of God abandons, that's hopelessness. Apart from God, there's no hope.

Bert: The lie that man is above God is a lie

Now, Alex, I want to go back to a word that is so important, and you and I talk about it quite a lot. In verse 18, it is talked about who suppressed the truth in unrighteousness. And then in verse 25, who exchanged the truth of God for. And notice it's the definite article. The lie. Not a lie, but the lie. And it's that way in the Greek. It's definite. It's not something. And the whole idea. And notice what follows. Worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator. Now, here we have man putting himself up as God. In other words, God made man in his own image. But what these people are saying, no man made God in their image. They want to be above all. And that is the lie. The lie is that man is above God. That man is the one that is blessed forever. No, it is God who is blessed forever. And that truth. Let me just say, Alex, the truth. That truth of God being the Creator, the redeemer. if you don't get that, there's nowhere to go except downward. And that's what it says here, isn't it? There. God gave them over. God gave them up, didn't he?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. Verse 25. They exchanged the truth of God for the lie. the lie could be expressed in a number of ways. You could say, well, I don't need God or his word. If you assume that, if Satan deceives, you into believing that that's a lie, we all do need God and his word. Or the lie that, it doesn't really matter what you believe as long as you're sincere, that is false. Because talking about the definite article, the. In John 14:6 the virgin born, sinless son of God who rose from the dead. He said nobody else could ever do what Jesus did. Walked on water, conquered the grave. Jesus said, he is the way, the truth, the life. See, Bert, Jesus is not one option among many for salvation and eternal life. He's the only option, isn't he?

>> Bert Harper: He is the only one. And notice what they do. They worship and serve the creature. Man's worshiping and serving himself. And this is the whole idea that I'm the conqueror. I'm the one. I'm the determiner of all eternity. No, you have a lot of determination to direction. You have, but you're not the director of eternity. God is. And here it is. They worship. Now, Alex, I was reading and trying to get ready. Man is going to worship. That's the truth. Now, here, a lot of them, they made images. But yet man, even without an image, worship even possibly it's himself. It can be money. It can be power and control. But man is. Is prone that. You remember the old song, man is prone to wander. Lord, I feel it. Let me say this man by himself is prone to worship.

>> Alex McFarland: you know, that's a good observation. Yes.

>> Bert Harper: And here it is. If you can't worship God, you're going to worship an idol. And the one that is the first and foremost, I believe, is self. you know, myself and who I am. And I think that's it. Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: There was, in mythology, Narcissus, bent down to get a drink out of a stream, and he saw his own reflection. And he was just so enamored with his own handsomeness that he stared till he fell in and drowned. And we get the word narcissism out of that. But you're right. Whether it's pride and selfishness or just absorption with the things of this world, you're right. We are an incurably worshipful race. But the question is, are we worshiping the true and living God? Who is the source of life? and anything less than the living Jesus Christ is something finite, fallen, and will contribute to your demise. there are so many illustrations we could give, but, Bert, The devil doesn't care what hook you bite, folks. We think about, you know, a, drug user in a flop house or something and somebody in the gutter. And that's bad. But I want to tell you, the down and outs need Christ. The up and outs need Christ. Satan doesn't care if you go to hell from skid row or Fifth Avenue, just as long as you leave this World without Jesus.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

Alex: God's judgment is according to truth, not man's standards

And again, I'm jumping ahead because sometimes these themes do that, and it doesn't mean we're not going. But if you look at chapter two, verse two, you'll find out God, judgment is always the truth. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth. So here as you go from verse 24, where it says God gave them up to uncleanliness, and then you jump to verse 26, the reason God gave them up to violent passions, he's. It's the same thing according to truth. No matter how far you go, up, out, up and out or down and out, God's judgment is according to truth. And that's what you were saying, Alex. You may, have be on, quote, Fifth Avenue, you may have everything that you want, but still, God's judgment, he's the standard. Not man does not make the standard. God does, doesn't he?

>> Alex McFarland: That's true. And lest anybody say, well, you know what? I'm a pretty good person. I'm not as bad as the bank robber or the terrorist or whomever. But see, that's not the standard that you'll be measured by. God is never going to evaluate, a lost sinner and say, well, you know, this guy wasn't perfect, but he was a little better than this one over here or Charles Manson or whomever. No, the standard is Jesus. And in light of the holy risen Son of God, we all fall short. you might think I'm not such a bad guy, but compared to Jesus, we've all fallen short, and we're sinners. And Jesus is the standard of righteousness by which eternity is measured. Not anything down here below.

>> Bert Harper: And the God that we're talking about here loves those people. He loves them. He wants them to turn. He wants, away from their way, away from their sin, and turn to him. Where there's hope, there's love, and this is what the gospel's all about. That's why Paul is going to present this to the Romans, so they'll know that people need the Lord. You're listening to Alex and Bert here on Exploring the Word. And we'll be back, still in the book of Romans, chapter one, right after this break. Will you take a moment and celebrate life with me?

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>> Alex McFarland: I know the only reason I can stand here unashamed. It's not because I'm worthy. It's all because of mercy.

Alex McFarland: I enjoy Christian music very much

Welcome back to Exploring the word. Alex McFarland, Bert Harper. That lyric. Do you listen to these lyrics? It's not because I'm worthy, but the reason I can stand before him is because of his mercy. And you know, Bert, we're very blessed. Brent helps us pick out really good. It's called bumper music. You know, we go out, we come back and I, think, Bert, if we weren't Bible teachers, we could be Perhaps gospel music DJs. Do you think?

>> Bert Harper: I think so. Now listen, I can't produce it, but I sure can enjoy it. And I enjoy these songs so much. And they bless us.

>> Alex McFarland: The lyrics are so good.

>> Bert Harper: They are, they are.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, you mentioned in the previous segment, that great old hymn in the hymn book, Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it. Prone to leave the God I love. I think that's the song. Come thou fount of every blessing. And let me just encourage you folks, I say this sometimes. Read the lyrics of some of those old hymns.

>> Bert Harper: Oh man, yes.

>> Alex McFarland: you know, the fire will not hurt thee. I only design thy dross to remove thy gold to refine. you know, the church's one foundation is Jesus Christ our Lord. I mean, some of those songs, the rich lyrics that are drawn straight from scripture, I thank God for Christian music, I really do. But we are in Romans chapter one. And during the break, Bert and I were talking, somewhat lamenting how slowly we're going. But this is just really rich. Let me point out three things. God only has to say something once for it to be true. RC Sproul said that. RC Sproul said if God says it once, it's true. But three times. Verse 24, God gave them up. Verse 26, God gave them up. Verse 28, God gave them over to a reprobate mind. And then, verse three of chapter two. How will you escape the judgment of God, Bert? our culture and look, I love people. I love people, love to talk to People about the Lord. But we're a culture that I fear we are so immersed in darkness, immorality, unspeakable sin and evil that it's almost like, as a culture, we have lost the ability to feel guilt and shame. And before you repent and turn, you've got to come under what's called conviction. And so if you just resolutely will not yield to the promptings of God's Holy Spirit. God gave them up three times. And America and certain Americans are no different. And, Bert, I think there are people that have so long fed their soul on sin, it's almost like they can no longer hear the voice of the Savior.

>> Bert Harper: Further. They've gone further than they ever dreamed morally. Notice what takes place here in verses 24 and 25. You are looking at idolatry, exchanging the truth of God for the lie. Verse 26, it moves even further. That affects your moral compass, what you think is right, even under the point of what you'd call unnatural, vile, completely wrong. And that's what you do. It's downward, Alex. It's a downward spiral. and again, go back to verse 22. They say, oh, no, this is progressive. we're moving upward. Is mankind our knowledge and everything? No. According to this, they're moving downward, aren't they?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, well, they are. Vance Havner. Again, Vance Havner said, and I quote, he said, the idea of progress is a myth. He said, we started out in the perfect garden of Eden in uninterrupted fellowship with God, and we've been going downhill ever since. And I want to say this, verse 26, for this cause, God gave them up to vile V I L E. Vile affections. That means unspeakably evil. For even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature or unnatural. And likewise, also the men leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust, one toward another. listen. Men with men working that which is unseemly. In other words, it's. It's inappropriate beyond words, unseemly. Receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was suitable or appropriate.

Lesbianism and male homosexuality are categorically wrong in God's eyes

Okay, I want to say this. Romans 1:26 and 27, and this is only one scripture. Lesbianism and male homosexuality are categorically wrong in the eyes of God. Now, God loves people. Anybody can be saved. A promiscuous heterosexual can be saved if they'll turn to Christ. But I want to say this. And I wish San Francisco, California would hear it. I wish Drag Queen Story Hour would hear it. I wish the progressive woke, gay affirming Theology schools would hear it. Romans 1, 26 and 27, Lesbianism and Homosexuality, categorically in the eyes of God Almighty. It is wrong. It will never be right. Nothing can legitimize it. It's sinful, it's against nature. And the people that believe otherwise are deceived by the devil.

>> Bert Harper: Notice what it starts out. And I noticed this in verse 26. Even the women. Now, Alex, do you catch that? Even the women, in other words women, which would be more nurturing. The women who would be more conscious of that, they seem to have a greater consciousness and awareness of, you know, the difficulty and everything. even the women. So here it is that Paul is sharing this, that this is how it's going. It's going downward, spiraling downward. Now, I'll say this one more thing and then we can get on as well, because, again, we've read it enough that, And we understand there's children maybe around somewhere. So we're going to go over it. But listen, the first time I ever heard this, I knew it was, you know, the individual. And then I heard someone say, this is. This is also true in a society. And that's what you have shared. In other words, a society that accepts the idea of God not being God. That's the reason the Bible talks about blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord and the foundation is God. When we lose that, guess what? The idolatry comes in. And then this downward spiral of decisions, moral, immoral, all of it is a downward spiral. And so if we could, This is why we need revival. We need to bring revival that God is God and man needs him and we can have this relationship with him. And that through that you will see things change. A, right relationship with God. And that means the truth. Again, you go back to that. It's the truth, not a falsehood. Not what man wants to happen or what man may think.

Bert: Verse 21 says they knew God, but they denied him

And that brings us up to what it says here in the next few verses, Alex. And notice verse 28, that they did not like to retain God in their knowledge. Why? Because if they have God in their knowledge. And remember in creation, they knew God, but they denied him. They knew it, but they were neither, were thankful and would not glorify him, in verse 21, because they knew God. So what they're trying to do there's really not atheistic. They know it's there, but they deny it in their knowledge. So they won't have guilt. So they Will not have limitations. Do you see all that happening in verses 27 and 28 as well?

>> Alex McFarland: Absolutely. Absolutely. verse 28 is. And by the way, you'll never hear anything like this in some other religion. There are a lot of religions that are man's attempt to work their way to God. Christianity is the glorious gospel of grace. But, these people that have given themselves over to ingratitude, idolatry, false religion, and ultimately, immorality, moral immorality. Even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, they don't want to think about God because that's convicting. God gave them over. God let them go to a reprobate mind. Now, the word reprobate is unfit or unapproved. some translations, inconvenient. But it has the idea a mind that no longer works. Now, let me give you an illustration, Bert. this is many years ago, but I knew a guy and, his motor blew in his truck, and he, he took it. And the mechanic said, well, you let it run out of oil, and the motor eventually fried and the pistons locked up. Why did you let it run out of oil? And the man said, well, my oil pressure gauge didn't register anything wrong. And they found out that the oil pressure gauge had failed. And while the engine was running, out of oil, the dashboard gauge didn't show was failed. When we lose our conscience, that's like the warning lights no longer work. And you don't want to get to that point. I mean, it's bad enough to have to rebuild an engine, right? But we're talking about the loss of soul and eternity, the loss of a culture, the reprobate mind. the only analogy I can say, the warning lights on the dashboard are no longer coming on.

>> Bert Harper: Wow.

>> Alex McFarland: Good.

>> Bert Harper: illustration, Alex. It really is. And notice what it says. Verse 29. Filled with all unrighteousness. In other words, I think this goes up to what we've been talking about. God gave them up. God gave them up. God gave them over, and now they're full of what? Unrighteousness? Nothing. Is there, no room for anything else? If it's filled, is it room for anything else? No. So you have this. They're filling this unrighteousness, and then he starts listing all of these characteristics, these sins of this reprobate mind, reprobate society. And it is, it is quite a horrible list. One of the worst lists you'll find in the Bible.

>> Alex McFarland: I, counted 23 characteristics. Okay.

>> Bert Harper: No, I was trying to remember. You did Better than me. I was counting and I got up to 20 and then I had to quit. 23.

>> Alex McFarland: Okay, 23. And, you know, this is the inverse. This is 180 degree opposite of the fruits of the spirit.

>> Bert Harper: It is.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, when we're controlled by God's holy spirit, there's love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, holiness. But here, filled with unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, envy, murder, debate. I'm going to come back to that in a minute. Deceit, malignity. That means just unable to be honest or forthright. you're, malicious in all that you're doing. Whisperers, backbiters, haters of God despiteful, proud boasters, inventors of evil things disobedient to parents without understanding. Covenant breakers. In other words, they don't keep their word without natural affection. In other words, has unnatural, really, fetishes is what that is. Implacable. Nothing satisfies unmerciful. So there are 23, fruits of the fallen spirit, who, knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but have pleasure in them that do them. Bert, let me just say under verse 30, inventors of evil things. The Internet has some good stuff, but the Internet has horribly, unspeakably satanic dark things. And now they're. I'm, not even going to elaborate, but we're living in the age of where our loss of morality seems to have been parallel with this explosion of technology used for just immoral, ungodly things that enslave people. And. Listen, the devil doesn't care what you're doing. You could be, working a job or engaging in some obsessive behavior, but the devil wants you to live and die. Exit this world without redemption. And he's certainly worked in the lives of some people to keep them busy, lest they think about Jesus and their soul.

>> Bert Harper: And Alex, that list is this. And it says, according to verse 32, knowing. I know you've read it. I want to read it one more time. Who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, Knowing. Okay, go back all the way, if you will, when they knew God in verse 21 did not glorify him as God, they're reaping their consequences. Listen, you will not stay where you are.

Look at transgenderism right now. They promote it, Alex. Children, preschoolers, age group

It's a downward spiral. Knowing the righteous judgment of God that those who practice such things are worthy of death. Now, listen, this last raised, not only do the same, but also now it says approve in the in the new King James, that word also can be. They promote it, Alex. It's not enough that they say, oh, it's not just accepted, it is promoted. Look at transgenderism right now. They are promoting that. Children, preschoolers, age group, promoting such a thing on them. And so here it is. They are, promoting all those who practice them. This is it. It's a industry. Okay? It is an industry. Human trafficking industry. The whole idea of, of the mind altering drugs and industry. And what are they doing? They're promoting these things and it is getting worse and worse. And there, Let me get into chapter two, verse one, I'll throw it back to you. Therefore, you're inexcusable, old man.

>> Alex McFarland: Yes, just like verse 21 of chapter one, man has no excuse. verse one of chapter two, inexcusable. And like I said yesterday, that's the word. An apologetic. A n Apologetica. No, defense. The word. The word apologetics means to speak in defense. Like defending the faith.

>> Bert Harper: Apostle.

>> Alex McFarland: But the prefix A n means the negation. What is God saying? Look, immoral, idolater, resisting salvation. You have no defense for what you're doing.

>> Bert Harper: Hey, we're going to take phone calls in the next segment. M that number. If you have your Bible question, we want to hear it. Triple 858-9884.

>> Alex McFarland: Are you a new small group leader looking for a strong curriculum? Even if you've been a leader for years, there's always a need for tools to help you as you help others deepen their love for God and their Bible knowledge. AFA Stream is a great resource with topics covering biblical worldview, training, godly marriage, and more. You'll have access to some of the best teaching available. And if you're a great commission partner, you open up even more. Visit stream afa.net today. Stream afa.net.

Bird and Alex take phone calls each day and answer them whole hour

>> Bert Harper: Welcome back to Exploring the Word. Bird and Alex here. We're taking phone calls in this segment and, this kind of sets this program apart from other Bible teaching programs. we do this each day, Monday through Thursday and on Friday we take questions the whole hour and do our best to answer them. And we try to answer them as best we can. And, we have people said, how in the world do you and Alex do that? Well, I just tell you my answers are eula short and Alex, we fill in for each other.

>> Alex McFarland: I talk too much.

>> Bert Harper: No, you do great, man. I love it. but I just tell you it keeps you on praying, saying, lord, help us, because we don't want to just fill the air with our Thoughts. What we want to do our best is give that biblical response of truth and love. And, Alex, we try to combine those two things. God does truth and love. And, that's our goal when we answer, isn't it truth and love.

>> Alex McFarland: It really is. And we sincerely appreciate everybody listening. We sincerely appreciate the people that call in, one of whom is in Kansas, I believe it is. Scott. do I have it right? You're in Kansas, Scott?

>> Caroline: Yes, sir. Yes, I am.

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome to the program.

>> Caroline: Well, thank you. I always enjoy it. at the beginning of the show, you basically made a comment saying that we, have a tendency to always want to worship something. And, what happened for me is in the summer of 1978, between my sophomore and junior year of high school, two things happened. I became a private pilot, and I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. But as my career grew and because of things in my childhood, my identity of Scott the pilot took precedence over being Scott the child of God. And in my early 30s, long story that I lost my medical and my career came to an end. I no longer had the identity that I built. And God had to create and show me who I was in him. And that journey was difficult, but it was wonderful where God has brought me.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: Scott, you know, Philippians 1, verse 6 says, he who began a good work, and you will be faithful to complete it under the day of Jesus Christ. And Bert, isn't it wonderful? Even if we backslide or drift away a little bit, his grace always keeps seeking us out.

>> Bert Harper: He does. He does. He's the hound of heaven. And I think Scott has gotten on something that is so important, and that's identity, as myself, you know, I'm a Christian, but also man. My identity is so in my family, it's in my work. And, now what happens, Scott, if we can really understand our identity in creation and then identify ourselves as we've been saved, as redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ, and we bring that identity into our vocation, into our work ethic, I want to tell you, it fulfills the identity. you catch what I'm saying? I'm trying to say that it makes it full and, and better. And Scott, the one that you always want to have is that identity with Christ once you know him, and the other identities, that may change, but the identity with Christ. Amen, Alex. That's secure once we know him for sure, isn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Amen. let's go to, also Kansas and talk with Gene, Gene, welcome to the program.

Gene: That can be misunderstood where Jesus descended, isn't it

>> Bert Harper: Thank you.

>> Alex McFarland: My question is, one of the ladies in our Bible study this morning said.

>> Bert Harper: That after Jesus died on the cross.

>> Alex McFarland: Paid for all of her sins, that.

>> Bert Harper: He went to hell. I can't find that anywhere. Okay, thank you, Gene. First of all, praise the Lord for women's Bible studies, Alex. I mean, and men too. I know a bunch of men, they meet on the mornings a lot of the time. You know, a lot of the ladies meet during the day. But praise the Lord, Gene, Alex, that can be misunderstood where Jesus descended, isn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, 1st Peter 3, 1820 talks about that Jesus died and suffered for our sins and went and preached to the spirits in prison. And Then also Ephesians4.9 talks about that he descended into the lower parts of the earth. Now, he that ascended, Ephesians 4. 9, he descended first into the lower parts of the earth. He that descended is the same also that ascended up into the heavens. So here's the thing. the first Peter 3, 18:20 talks about in verse 19, the spirits in prison. Now, what that means is, and by the way, it talks about in, Psalm 68, that he led captivity, captive in the realm of the dead. Sheol, the grave, which is in the King James translated, hell. I want to be very clear, Bert, when I was growing up, I was actually taught wrong a little bit. And let me explain. I remember distinctly a, minister that was at a church we went to when I was a little bitty kid. But he taught that Jesus, the payment for our sin, Christ burned in hell and was resurrected. Really the payment for our sin, the atonement and propitiation. The atonement and the payment and the turning away of wrath happened on Calvary's cross. Now, Jesus did enter the grave, the realm of the dead. Sheol. Now, Abraham's bosom paradise. Those were the saints of old that had died and they were taken to heaven, to the unbelieving, the unsaved dead that are in, Hades, the part of punishment, they had a proclamation of condemnation. So the Apostles Creed, which I believe in, I've taught that. And that's about a 1600 year old statement of faith. It says he descended into hell. Really more properly, he descended into the realm of the dead. Bert, is that how you understand that?

>> Bert Harper: It is, Alex. And we find that in Luke 16, when Jesus talks about the rich man and Lazarus died, that you know, a, gulf was fixed. And so when you departed from this earth and that you went to either paradise, Abraham's bosom is what it's called, or captivity and the word preached unto the saints in prison. the idea is not when we get prison, we think of the punishment, but it's the holding place, Alex, you know what I mean? Even, ah, for those. And so that's exactly. I think you did a great job, Gene. We hope that, helps you. He did descend, but it was to those saints, and he took them captive and he ascended with them, and they're with the Lord right now, before the Lord Jesus Christ. And he's on the throne at the right hand of the Father. And the saints are there, close. Thank you, Jim.

>> Alex McFarland: Barb in Nebraska. Barb, are you there?

>> Bert Harper: Yes, I am.

>> Alex McFarland: Thank you for taking my call.

Bert says Romans 1:29 means debating God

Yes, you had said a little bit.

>> Caroline: Earlier that you were going to explain the word strife in chapter 20, verse 29.

>> Alex McFarland: What is strife? Well, strife, thanks for asking. That is, the Greek word eris e R I s, and it's in Romans 1:29. And, you know, it connotes quarrel and, arguing, really. And it's the word, in the King James. It's translated debate. these are the unsaved truth rejecters, filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, envy, murdering strife. Now, some say debate, but, Bert, let me say, have you ever met anybody, if you told them water was wet, they'd argue with you about that. I mean, and the strife that Romans 1:29 is talking about, Barb, are the people. It doesn't matter what you say, how you share, how you can defend the faith, they're going to argue about it. And, that's the eris. I haven't done a word study, but I would surmise probably this eris, Greek word, is probably where we get the word error.

>> Bert Harper: But, Alex, let me add this to it. Have you ever preached a sermon and you come about and you just say what God says from the word of God? And I've heard it, and I've said it. I said, now, if you. If you deny this, your argument is not with me, it's with God. And if I understand that word strife, it means debating God. In other words, hear truth, because the truth has already been presented that God is real, that he cares for us and he loves us, and these things are wrong. And if you debate that, you know, your argument is with God, and that is the strife, as I understand that.

>> Alex McFarland: And let me just say this, and I think, folks, if you kind of keep your eyes open. You'll see what I'm talking about. When somebody, I mean, you can just give the word of God without commentary. The Bible says in John 3:16, whoever believes will be saved. If somebody argues against the clear word of God, they've got a problem with authority. Chances are they've got a problem with their Father. But, it's not intellect or logic or reasoning. Bert, I've shared God's word with people, and they'll say, well, that's just your opinion. I'm like, no, it's not my opinion. Now I believe it. But the word says what the word says.

>> Bert Harper: Amen, Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: and when you've got a person that is just contrarian, I, think you've just got to pray for them. And it's going to take the Holy Spirit to break through their hardness. Let's go to Texas. Karen in Texas. Thank you for holding, and welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Caroline: Thank you, God, so much for taking my call.

Once they ate the forbidden fruit, then they could see evil, Alex says

I have a question about, in the garden. Would it be a fair statement to say that Adam and Eve was not blind?

>> Bert Harper: They could actually see. But once they ate from the forbidden fruit, then they could see evil.

>> Caroline: Could you help me out with that?

>> Bert Harper: Okay, let me set this up, Alex, and you take it away. Listen, in other words, Satan had said, when you eat of this fruit, you'll know good and evil. They already knew what good was, okay? They already experienced it. They knew it that God would walk with them. What. What they were saying. What was saying, hey, you'll know the other side. and I'm using an old phrase, you know, the dark side. You know what I mean, Alex? and their eyes were opened into that. They did look at things differently after they ate the fruit because of what took place.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, they. They knew what fellowship with God was. But sadly, after sinning, they also then knew what alienation from God was. you know, I've been very blessed, Bert. I've never had a broken bone, and I don't want to know what that's like. I can imagine. Praise Jesus. I know what it is to not have a broken bone. But I don't want to find out what it is to break a bone. Adam and Eve, the devil lied to them. He said, you, eyes will be opened and you'll know good and evil. And yeah, they did. They knew what evil was because they were guilty of it. fortunately, God in his mercy promised to send a Savior. Genesis 3:15.

Let's go to Alabama, Brian in Alabama, you are on exploring the Word

Let's go to Alabama, Brian in Alabama, you are on exploring the Word. Hey, Brian. Brian. Okay, folks. Yes. You're on, sir.

>> Caroline: Yeah, I'm here now. I mean, okay, thank you. I appreciate you taking my call.

Some Christians say they keep Old Testament, New Testament separate

Hey, real quick, yesterday, my daughter Tatum called in about the question about the, Old Testament. God's words being black and Jesus being read. I don't know if y' all remember.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Let, me say. I'm stopping you for a minute. She made our day. I'm telling you that right now. Go ahead, Brian.

>> Caroline: That didn't. She said, daddy, I want to ask him a question. I said, well, you go right ahead. But, anyway, hey, I had come across somebody those days. It taught me. Years ago, we had a situation in church where there's this, belief rightly dividing the word. There's this Berean society out there that teaches. I don't know if y' all familiar, have heard of it before, but when they call rightly dividing the word, they talk about how they keep the Old Testament, New Testament separate, which I thought that that's not. That's yard. So off base. Because if you don't understand Old Testament, it just leads right into Jesus. It teaches about the coming of Jesus, but they separate the two because they say it's a Jewish doctrine versus the New Testament is for gentiles, which is completely absurd to me. But.

>> Bert Harper: Well, here's the problem with that, Brian. Jesus was a Jew. And, he said he kept the law perfectly. And yes, Alex, are they knitted together, you know, in reality?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. Well, because, you know, Jesus said in John 5, 39, and he would have by the word Scriptures, he would have meant what you and I call the Old Testament, Genesis through Malachi, Jesus said, search the scriptures for they testify of me. And really there's a grammatical construction called. You understood, you in parentheses. He was saying to the disciples, you search the scriptures. So why do we search and read the Old Testament? Because the Lord said to. And he said the theme of that Old Testament is me, the savior. So when 2 Timothy 2:15 says, rightly dividing the word of truth. You know, Bert, I think we have to take the totality of Scripture. Now, the Berean Christians. Bert, was that Acts 17?

>> Bert Harper: yes. It was one of my favorite churches in the New Testament. Yes.

>> Alex McFarland: It says the Bereans were noble, searching the Scriptures to see if all these teachings were true. So the concept of being a Berean style Christian, diligently searching the Bible, I'm all for that, but you can't. I want to Say it. Andy Stanley is wrong. He said, you unhitch the New Testament from the Old Testament. False. False. You take them together and you'll find Jesus.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. And listen, when. What. Let me say, without the Old Testament, Jude would be very, bland, you know?

>> Alex McFarland: And the Book of Hebrews. The Book of Hebrews would be incomparable.

>> Bert Harper: They really would. Hey, Alex, this has been great. we're going to get to chapter two of Romans tomorrow. and I'm looking forward to that because we kind of go to the other side. We went to the place where, man, downward spiral. Then we're going to transition to a group of people that, it looks like, well, we're morally okay. And Paul says, hey, you need Jesus as much as those folks do. Have you ever met anybody that doesn't need Jesus, Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: You either have Jesus or you need Jesus. And fortunately, whosoever will come to him can meet Jesus. We hope you've done that. Thank you for listening to Exploring the Word. Please tell somebody about afr. But most of all, tell everybody about Jesus Christ.

>> Bert Harper: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.