Transcript

American Family Radio takes your Bible questions live on American Family Radio

>> Bert Harper: The Bible. It's the word of God. Sharper than any two edged sword. This sacred book is living and active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness. Stay with American Family Radio for the next hour as we study God's word and take your Bible questions.

Bert Harper and Alex McFarland are studying the book of Romans

Welcome to Exploring the Word. We are studying the book of Romans, and Paul uses questions to introduce so many of the principles, the doctrines that he is trying to share with those Romans, but also us as well. And one of those questions is this. In chapter 8, verse 35, who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Well, we want to talk about that today. This is Bert Harper along with Dr. Alex McFarland. And, we are praying that you would join us for this whole hour, if not, as much as you can. But Alex, it's always good and exciting to be in the book of Romans. We've enjoyed that so much. But first of all, tell me, tell m everybody in the audience where you are today.

>> Alex McFarland: Wow. Well, Bert, it's great to be with you. And I am staring at some beautiful mountainside in Montana. I'm at Trails in Ranch, which is a Christian camp. This is our, our second year to do a youth camp here at Trails In. And just, four or five minutes ago, I was up in front of, well over 100 teenagers and adults. And we're, we're talking about biblical worldview. And it's, a great, great camp. I appreciate everybody's prayers. And Bert, I just want to say I appreciate Brent Austin, and Jeff McIntosh. Earlier today we were working on the audio. So even though I'm out here in the wilderness of Montana where there is no cell phone signal, they were able to figure it out where I could patch in and be with you today, Bert.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Well, they call it Big sky country for a reason, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: And it is.

>> Bert Harper: But you know, you have Alaska and then Texas, and third in size is Montana. And, it's a beautiful state and I know everything is going good. we want to report at the end of the week to see what all God has done, but we want to make this a matter of prayer. Tuesday is always a day of prayer, but today we're asking you to start praying for those. Is it 130, young people?

>> Alex McFarland: It is. And last year in this Montana camp, we had a big outpouring of God's spirit. More than three dozen kids got saved. And all the rest there was. On the final day last summer, literally 100% of the youth came forward to pray at the altar and commit that they would pray for their school, they would be an influence for the gospel. And you know what, Bert? I got here several hours ago. I flew into Rapid, city, South Dakota, got a rental car and drove about three hours to where we are here in Montana. And to God be the glory. I get into the camp, I go to the office, and the lady behind the desk, she said, Alex McFarland, she said, people have come to the camp looking for you because they listen to exploring the word.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. Well, we're excited about that, Alex. And I know that you're going to have a great time and we're going to be praying for them and just asking God to pour his spirit out. But I agree with you. Jeff and Brent do a great job of connecting. they're, you know, we call them board ops, but sometimes they're connectors. You know what I mean?

>> Alex McFarland: yeah.

>> Bert Harper: Where you are and wherever you might be and they get you on the radio. We're so thankful because we would not want to do this. Especially when you get into 9, 10 and 11 of the book of Romans. I want to tell you, it, it's, it's not as exciting as, 5, 6, 7 and 8. But you look at it and say, oh, that's a connection. That's a connection. God's not through with Israel, so that means he's not through with me. But let's finish up chapter eight, today, if we could. And again, we got through verse 35 with that question, who is, who is he who condemns?

Bert Bird: Romans 8:35 says nothing can separate us from Christ

But verse 35, and I've already introduced it, I want you to answer this maybe, with Scripture. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ if we've been born again, Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: No one, nothing, no circumstance, no spiritual oppression in Jesus, nothing can separate us. And you know, Bert, you and I have referenced it many times, but John 10:28, where Jesus said of the believer now, what a great promise. Jesus said, I give to them eternal life and they will never perish, and nothing can pluck them out of my hand. So in Romans 8:35, like you said, Paul asks a question here. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation or distress or persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword? And the answer is nothing. And Bert, that's a great encouragement, because in life, look, you can be a born again Christian, godly family, copiously following the Lord, and still in a fallen world, things happen. Godly people, come down with dread illnesses, Godly people wrestle with unemployment. Sometimes godly people have family issues. But, Bert, even in the midst of the circumstances, the Savior is with us, isn't he?

>> Bert Harper: He really is. And verse 36 fits into this because, he said, I. I want to back this up because he gives that list of tribulation, distress, and all of those issues that confront us. And he says it from Psalm 44. It says, for your sake, we're killed all the day long. We're accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Now, Alex, difficult just part of life. It was true in the Old Testament. It's true today. And as long as we breathe, we're going to have these tribulations and difficulties. And then after he quotes that verse from Psalm I love verse 37. Yet in all these things, we're more than conquerors through him who loved us. Now, I looked up that word conquest, conquerors. And, and. And it's not ne. It does mean conqueror. But it's that more than that really gets my attention as you. As I looked at it in the Greek language. And the best word that they could come up with, super conquerors. Okay.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Super conquerors. You. We're, listen, we have a superhero in Jesus Christ. And I mean that a real superhero, not a fictitious one, not made up. But. But because of him, we can be what? Super conquerors. We're made to be overcomers, aren't we?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, we really are. And, you know, in an age where, you know, sports heroes get really, really famous, I mean, people that excel in sports can become just global celebrities, and they, you know, conquered in an athletic contest or sometimes it's a military word of a great soldier that prevailed in a batt. and really, I'm sure people have heard this, but this is the Greek word from which we get the word Nike. and of course, there's a very famous product line of sports apparel, but it's from the Greek word for conqueror. But, hey, we in Jesus are more than conquerors. And that's why, look, life is good, and we are so blessed. But I've said this, and this is one of the ironies that people like A.W. tozer pointed out. A Christian who's on their sick bed is actually healthier than a lost person whose body is whole. And a Christian who might be dead broke financially is actually richer than a rich man who's lost in sin. And so we are more than conquerors through Christ who loved us. Bert, you referenced verse 36, which is really a quote from Psalm 44. 4, 22. That we are killed all the day long. Accounted as sheep for the slaughter. See, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. The Bible says in a fallen world. We are Christ's ambassadors, and he is with us. And whether it's persecution or maybe you're ostracized because you're stand for Jesus. Or maybe, like in. In many parts of the world. Bird, I know you on exploring missions. You and Nathan have talked about the persecuted church. But whether it's, you know, at home, abroad, life, death, good times, all times, we are victorious in Jesus. Irrespective of our outward circumstances, aren't we?

>> Bert Harper: We really are. Hallelujah. And that's who Christ is. Because it says through him, not on our own, but through Him. We have this. Notice this. You come into verse 38, verse 38 and 39. Again, you've said it many times. Chapter 8 has more quotable verses that people memorize and recall. And this is another one on both of these.

Alex: Verse 37 says nothing shall separate us from the love of God

But before we get to the list, I want to notice. I want you to notice this. And it says, our, verse 37. I want to notice this. Notice it says in all these things. Now, I want to go Back to verse 28. When it says. For we know that all things work together for good. So all these things and all the things that work together for good. It's through Him. It's by God. It's only through him that we have the victory. It's not something we have done in our own. Except complete dependence upon him. Surrendering to him and letting him have his way. When we do that, he goes back to answer the question, who shall separate us from the love of God? Notice what it says. For I am persuaded that neither death and he gives the holiest. And we'll come back to that in a minute. But go to the end of verse 39. Shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus. Absolutely nothing. I am persuaded that nothing shall separate us. Now, Alex, again, I want to do this real quickly before we go to the list. That word persuaded, it's. It says. Oh, you almost persuade me. No, this has the idea of fully persuaded. Not partially, not halfway, but fully persuaded, completely convinced. It's not a hope, so, or M A maybe so. It is that of knowing. And you go back to first John, where it says, these things have written that you may know. it has the same idea that I know. That these things shall not separate us from the love of God. And then it starts going over the list. And the list is quite impressive when we hear it from the point of view that all these powers coming against us cannot overcome what Christ has done in our lives.

>> Alex McFarland: Alex, you remember the great Charles Spurgeon, and we quote him often. And I would highly, highly recommend his book, Morning and Evening Devotions. but Spurgeon said, never doubt in the darkness what God has shown you in the daylight. Yeah, see, we can read this and say we're more than conquerors. And. And if life is good, we say, oh, that's. That's nice. very nice. But the time that you're going to really need these foundations to stand on is in the wee hours of the morning when you're at the bedside of a loved one in a hospital or when life has just about knocked you to your knees. And, you know, Bert, I think about Vance Havner that we quote so often and all around Greensboro, Bert, some, of the old timers, they talk about a Sunday in 1973 where Vance Havner went to Westover Church and preached just a fantastic, powerful sermon. And hundreds, came to the altar and nobody knew it, but in the wee hours of the morning, his wife, Sarah, had died. And everybody said, oh, no, you know, you shouldn't have come in to preach. You need to go stay home and lay in the bed and grieve. And Vince Havner said, look, if Christianity can't hold me up on this day, he said, I've spent decades preaching that Jesus will carry you through the deepest valleys. And he said, if I preach it, but don't live it, you know, what. What could I do? He said, yeah, I. I'm grieved that my wife passed in the wee hours of the morning, but I am, in Christ, and she is with Jesus, and we'll see each other again. My point is, as. As everybody knows, I'm sure that we build these precious, eternal truths into our life, and then invariably the day will come when we really need to live it out, and we will find that God's promises are true and God's Son.

>> Bert Harper: Is faithful in the dark night of the soul. He's real. He is real. I pray he's real to you. We'll be back with more right after this break. Will you take a moment and celebrate life with me?

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>> Jeff Chamblee: I've seen shame. The kind that comes from mistakes. The kind that won't go away. When I turned around, they were right there to remind me. I've seen regret. The kind that messes with your hair. The failures and the can't forget. But standing here now, I'm thanking God it's behind me. Cause I've seen nails, scarred hands reach out and wipe it all away.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. I had to wait. Yay. Amen.

Alex: As we get into the end of Romans chapter 8, we find another list

Let me share with you. As we get into the end of Romans chapter 8, we find out another one of Paul's list. Think, Paul could have written a book called the List. And Alex, he, he does it again in verse 38 and 39. And it's kind of opposing couplets. Notice this. And notice how they play off of one another. He says, I am persuaded. Okay. Neither death nor life. There it is. Angels nor principalities are powers. Angels opposed to principalities and powers. Things present, nor things to come. Height nor depth. And then he says, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. So this, I mean his list are always amazing. But this one, the way he opposes the one of the other. Alex. Height nor depth. Life and our death, nothing shall separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. One more thing and I'll throw it back to you. Notice what he does in verse 37. We're more than conquerors through him who loved us, Jesus. And then nothing shall separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. I think the apostle Paul is making it all about Jesus, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Amen. And, and you're right. How? Especially in 38, 39, these are, these are really opposites. And you know, in, in proverbs and some of the wisdom literature, we see what sometimes are called parallelisms, where, you know, this is contrasted against that. You know, you've got death or life principalities, or angels, you know, the principality, like fallen angels versus non fallen angels, powers in this present world or the world to come, height, depth, any other creature, nothing shall separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. So you know, Bert, you last week were talking about, and you did it so beautifully, how God has separated our sins as far as the east is from the west. And you pointed out it's not north to south because the, the, the poles on the globe you could measure north to south, but east to west is an infinite distance. And so what Paul is getting across here and of course writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. But that, as the old gospel song says, we are saved to the uttermost.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: And not only saved, but in Christ secure. And one last thing. And I, I know I, I get quotes and they stick in my mind, but, Oswald Chambers, that wrote, my utmost for his highest. You remember that? It's a devotional book that came out after he died 100 years ago. But he said regarding the hard times during the time of pain and testing, we must, I love the wording here, vigilantly believe what is true. In other words, consistent resolve. And here's the thing folks. What is true is that God is for you and God is with you. And God does love you and God does have things in control and your, your life is not. It might seem chaotic or just beyond fixing, but God has a plan. And we can be confident in that.

>> Bert Harper: We really can. And again, it is all about what comes Christ has done, but also what he is doing. Okay, he ascended to the right hand of the Father to make intercession for us. He sent the Holy Spirit that he might indwell us and then pray for us and interceding for us. So we have, we have double intercession. What, what we. No wonder Paul could say were more than conquerors. No, no wonder he could say, I am fully persuaded that nothing shall separate us from the love of Christ. So again, Alex and I have Talked about Chapter 8 being the peak of this. I really do believe, you know, it's the peak of what he writes not only in Romans. I'm not sure you get a lot more than what we have here in chapter eight. But then he goes into chapter nine and I, heard this. It seems like, okay, he's got the doctrine down. Now it looks like he would get into the discipline or the practical. But he takes three chapters out to secure the knowledge that God is faithful, Alex. That God is sovereign, that God is in control. And he uses Israel and all of their background in the past to prove that they, you know, he was an apostle to the Gentiles. So he's right into this Roman, community that he hasn't been with yet. And words may get out. Oh, he. He's forsaken, the old law. He's forsaken. No, it's not forsaking the law. He is fulfilling the law because Christ did. And so I think his, chapters 9, 10, 11 does fit right here in the middle of Romans before he goes to the practicality of the Christian living in chapter 12. What do you think?

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. I think you said it very well. And there. There's a lot here. This is really, really deep.

Alex: Let's talk about what it means to be a child of Abraham

but let's talk about what it means to be a child of Abraham. Because, he goes through and he says, you know, I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart, for I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen, according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the law and the promises. So he's saying, look, I'd give my own salvation if all of my fellow Hebrews would know the Messiah, which we all have to come for ourselves. Nobody can be the proxy for somebody else. Jesus was the substitute for all of us. But here's the thing that I think is worth, pointing out in verse 6, Romans 9, 6. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel, sir. Not every church member is part of the church. You know, not everybody sitting in a queue on a Sunday morning is part family of the redeemed. And Paul says, not all the Israelites are of Israel neither because they are the seed of Abraham. Are they all children? In other words, just because you were born an ethnic Jew doesn't make you a child of Abraham. Now, and Bert, this is the. The distinction between physical birth and spiritual birth. This is. This is deep that I think a lot of people perhaps haven't, thought of.

>> Bert Harper: I think you're right, Alex, and you're talking about the Jew. Just because they are physically doesn't mean they're the children of Abraham spiritually, which is so true. I know this is simplistic, but I heard it a long time ago, and, I've used it quite a bit. You know, you have what they call garage apartments. You have a garage, but over it, you got rooms up there, and they make it into an apartment. And I remember the preacher saying, just because you live in a garage apartment, doesn't make you an automobile. And so here, here it is. You can have all the DNA, physical DNA of, of the Jewish, people, but not be, right with God. And here you can have all the DNA of a gentile. But by faith come to know Jesus Christ as Savior. To be that children of promise. That's what he talks about in verse, eight. He compares Isaac, which seed shall be called the, you know, Abraham's seed. But verse eight, that is those who are the children of the flesh. These are not the children of God, but it's the children of promise. They're accounted as the seed. It is a matter of faith. How was it even in the Old Testament, it was a matter of faith. In the New Testament, it's a matter of faith. It's not in the law. We're not children of the law. There are none. The only one that came to fulfill the law was Jesus Christ. He came and he fulfilled it. No other person has ever done it. You cannot come to God as a child of the law. You have to come to him as a child of, faith. And Alex, that's where he starts. And he is saying. But he's also saying, hey, Israel, God's not through with you yet. Just because we're the new church doesn't mean that he has discarded the nation of the Jews. Israel. And we're going to get to that in chapter 11. But Alex, we're children of the promise. Hallelujah. What that.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Isn't that a beautiful name? We're children of the promise.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, amen. And you know, Abraham and Sarah went out and begat Ishmael with Hagar, the servant girl. And Arabs, let me just say this. Arabs can get saved. The descendants of Ishmael can get saved. But my point in this is just like Abraham and Sarah couldn't fulfill the covenant promises of God with human effort. We can't get saved through human effort. if you're thinking that you can get to heaven because you've tried to be a good person, quote unquote, or you've, you know, tried to follow the Ten Commandments, you're of the seed of Ishmael, really, because you're under law, not grace. And it's, to be the seed of Isaac and Abraham. In other words, you've trusted God to be the, to do the saving. And, so a lot of what Romans 9 is about is the fact that God is not only the one who initiates salvation. God is the one who pays for salvation. Now, I want to Go down to a verse, and then we'll, we'll back up a little bit. verse 20. Nay, O man, who art thou that replies against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, why have you made me thus? You know. All right, now we, we can go back and there are some examples here. All right. Verse 14 says, There is no unrighteousness with God, but God says he will have mercy on whom he will have mercy, compassion on whom I will have compassion. Now, on the one hand, and, let's talk about what God does in the salvation equation and what we do. Because, yes, there is something you have to do to get saved. And it's not meritorious work, but you do have to receive Christ into your heart, exercise faith, put your trust in Jesus. And this is not works. But yes, there is a human response that is necessary to God's revealing the gospel to you. But we, don't say, you know, God had no right to make the world this way. Or we don't say, you know, how can, how can this guy be saved, Bert? I heard somebody say this to me the other day. They were, they said, so and so, you know, was drinking, carrying on. I used to know him when he was in the gutter. And all of a sudden he's in church. And this other family has been a real godly family. And I think the fact that salvation is not by human effort. And listen, down and outs can get saved. Those who are up and out can get saved.

Bert: When people reject known truth, their heart gets hardened

So let's talk about this. Verse 18. God has mercy on whom he will have mercy and whom he will, he hardens. Now, one last thing. I'm gonna throw it to you. God doesn't. I don't think God makes anybody just to cast them into hell and makes people. God is not sadistic or unrighteous or cruel. Repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, the word of God says, whosoever will may come. Whosoever will may drink of the water of life. But I will say this. When people reject known truth, and it references Pharaoh that rejected truth and his heart got hardened. Bert, there have been a lot of people, and at one season in their life, they were savable. And then years later, maybe they weren't even savable because they had resisted God so many times that they no longer could hear truth. It's not that God, Bible says God is not willing that any should perish, but if, if somebody is bound and determined that they're not going to let Jesus into their life, he's not Going to force them, is he?

>> Bert Harper: He is not Two things. Let me say this. If it wasn't for him showing mercy, there'd be nobody saved. Okay, that. That's the whole idea. It's not because we deserve it. we trusted him, not because of deserving. well, I deserve hell. That's the plain truth. But Jesus Christ, in his mercy, he spoke to me, and I did receive him. He paid the price, but I had to receive that. That's not works. That's just receiving him. What he's done for me, I pray that he's done that for all of those who are listening. If not he wants to. The other thing is in verse 22, and you've talked about Pharaoh, but what If God, verse 22, wanting to show his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering, the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction. Now, we're talking about Pharaoh. The wording there and the way it's in the Greek language, it is prepared himself. In other words, what you were talking about. Pharaoh. Pharaoh, by rejecting God again and again and again, he was preparing himself for the destruction. Alex, when you say no to God, you're setting yourself up for the destruction that follows. That's why the Bible makes it blame. Today is the day of salvation. Do not put it off. Do not, say, oh, I'm waiting for a more convenient season. Right now is the time. Anyone who is listening, the danger of putting God off. When you have heard God speak, come, unto me and I'll give you rest. You're setting yourself up again to harden your heart. You're preparing yourself for a hardening of the heart. And so that's why Alex and I on this program so many times saying, come to Christ today. Don't put it off. Ask him to be Lord.

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>> Jeff Chamblee: Hey, if you've never heard of AFA Stream, let me tell you about it. It's video streaming that goes beyond just entertainment.

>> Bert Harper: Yeah, there are shorts and feature films.

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>> Jeff Chamblee: Check it out today@stream.afa.net.

>> Bert Harper: Welcome to exploring the word. We thank you for listening.

Alex: If you have a Bible question, call our phone number

And we're in the third segment that means phone calls, that number. And we've got lines that are open. And I know it's summertime and I know people are traveling. I heard about so many people came to me at church Sunday, said, well, we're heading out. We're, we'll be gone next Sunday because we're headed to there. So I know a lot of folks are, are traveling and but if you want to make ah, have a Bible question, it's triple 858-98-9840. Triple 858-9840. And Alex, I know this too. While you're doing a lot of the kids, our children at Ozark Baptist Church here in northeast Mississippi where I'm interim pastor, they came back from their camp, they had this past week and we had young people that were saved came to know the Lord Jesus Christ. They came down the aisle Sunday with their parents just glorifying him, praising Lord. So we're praying for this, your camp and other camps and vacation Bible schools this summer to be a harvest of souls. So I wanted to share that. But we got a lot of folks that man, they took me up and called in real quick. Alex, you, phone lines.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Brett sounds good.

>> Bert Harper: Yeah. Brett in Texas, welcome.

>> Ryan: Hey, welcome. Thank you guys. Love your ministry, love your radio show. God bless you guys. And to Gloria, God of all the, information and knowledge you guys present to us. Appreciate that.

>> Bert Harper: Thank you, man.

Dwight: Faith is what animates the will to say yes

>> Ryan: So, yeah, the subject you're talking about is obviously so intriguing. Romans, chapter nine towards the end of it, where it has those discussions and from a. I'm from a Southern Baptist type of mindset, typically. But over the years I've kind of been reading the scripture and and I'm hoping you guys can kind of maybe tell me where my law is with this thinking or not. and in the qu. And the. The idea is, is that you have before the foundations of the world. God, you know, chose you, wrote your name in the Lamb's book of life. But it does say whosoever will. So there's a will function that's involved. But then you have by grace, you are saved through faith, not of yourselves. So if it's the grace and the faith, it's the faith that makes the difference. It's that gift of faith. I believe. And here's where I'm hoping you guys can kind of give me some clarity that faith is what animates the will to say yes? Because when you believe something, and I think about my younger brother, we went through the same upraising, went through the same church, knew the same people, but he just does not believe. And I say, what is the difference? I'm not smarter, I'm not more religious, I'm not. But I think it's that faith part, that when God gives you that faith, when he chooses to give you that faith, your will jumps on it. It says, of course I don't want to go to hell because I believe I'm going to hell because of my sins.

>> Bert Harper: Yeah.

>> Ryan: Anyways. Yeah, go ahead.

>> Bert Harper: I think you're right. Listen, when you read the scriptures and you see it plain, I think you'll come up like Charles Spurgeon when it comes to the sovereignty of God and the free will of man, that they are friends that you can't completely explain, if you try to explain it away, you lose your mind. I really do. And if you try to explain it completely where man could understand it, I think you'll mess it up. I do know this. You hear the word of God and you believe it. That word believe, Alex, is not just head knowledge. It's a trust factor. It is, and I would say the faith factor. And I think Brett's right, it is the faith factor. And because we believe our will changes to him. But God's at work in this, isn't he? And, and my free will does not do away with the sovereignty of God. And God's sovereignty doesn't do away with my free will. We may not can completely comprehend it, but in place of me saying, oh, I don't believe any of it, drive it away, it draws me closer to him because wow, God, you work all things for good. That means you work your sovereign will and my free will together. That's the power of God in my thoughts. Alex, go ahead.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, the Bible talks about the marriage supper of the lamb, that one day all the redeemed in heaven will have a banquet with Jesus. And I think, that great supper is such an appropriate thing to think about because I mean, imagine the greatest chef in the world invites you over for dinner and you get there and the, the, the world's greatest chef has cooked this dinner from appetizers to entree, the most amazing multi course banquet ever. But you still have to pick up the fork and take a bite. You know, the fact that you eat it and you receive it and you graciously, gratefully, partake of this wonderful meal, that doesn't undermine the fact that it was all completely made possible by the chef, you know, but the chef can cook it and set the table. And. But the guests around the table still have to choose to take a bite and eat. And salvation is completely a work of the Lord. And. But. But there is something that we're a part of the equation that we have to say. Yes. Yes, Lord, I believe.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. hey, listen, those of you that are listening, well, I don't understand it completely. Listen, you're in. You're in a good group of people, because I don't think anybody completely comprehends God is knowable. But, Alex, I do not think he's completely comprehensible. Do you catch my words?

>> Alex McFarland: Exactly.

>> Bert Harper: And so go ahead.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, D.L. moody, who is a big hero, and, you know, his son wrote a biography about D.L. moody. And, if you want to get inspired, study up on Dwight Lehman Moody. But he was not, an educated man per se. He was an incredibly wise man. God used. But he went to Oxford over in England, and they were trying to trip him up. And. And, oh, what about the sovereignty of God? What percentage was God's sovereignty? What percentage was your response? Moody said this. He said, look, God looked at me, and I looked at him, and I accepted him, and he accepted me, and the two of us became one.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: And there's a beauty in that simplicity, isn't it?

>> Bert Harper: It really is. And if you try to start making it more complicated, I think you run into confusion. Amen.

Bert says there are degrees of punishment in hell for those who rejected Christ

Let's go to Arkansas. Terry, thank you for calling.

>> Bert Harper: yes, I'd like to say God bless you, too. And, I like what you're doing, and, it's really reaching a lot of people.

>> Bert Harper: Blessing.

>> Bert Harper: My question is, I know we save by the grace of God. Jesus went to the cross, and he died for our sin, and that's for only way we can be saved and go to heaven. Well, I was reading chapter, 20 in revelation, and it was talking about you. I think it was verse 12, talking about the book of life and the book of works. So you'd be judged on your name being in the book of life, and you be judged according to your works. And that kind of got me confused. I know nothing we can do can get us to heaven, but that just kind of mixed me up a little bit.

>> Bert Harper: Let me make one statement real quick, Alex. Take it away. We got a lot of calls now. I had one. Now we got full. But listen, I'll say this. He keeps the record of our works because he's got rewards to give those who are faithful and he's going to give those out. And so that quote book or ah, record of those things that we've been faithful in, he's going to reward us one day. But salvation is the gift of God. Alex, go ahead.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. In Revelation 20, verse 12, the apostle John says there was the book of life and the dead were judged out of those things written in the books. So in verse 12 of Revelation 20 there's salvation that's decided the moment you accept Christ. But then there's rewards in heaven that there is evaluation of all that we did post salvation. But then in verse 13, the sea gave up the dead that were in it death and hell. And they now verse 13 of Revelation 20 are the lost and they were judged according to their works. And so Bert, just as there's rewards in heaven for those who have trusted Christ, there are punishments in hell for those that rejected Christ. And let me say I, I think there's going to be degrees of punishment in hell and the rejection of known truth is going to compound the guilt of those that are eternally lost. Do you agree?

>> Bert Harper: I agree. Let me tell you this. I preached about it Sunday. I do believe in hell. The worst thing that's going to be. I know it's tormented in the flame. But what did the rich man know? He says I have five brothers. The memories. How many times every time a person rejects Jesus Christ in hell their memories. There's not going to be any dementia in hell where you forget those. No, you're going to remember. I could have then. I could have now Alex, that's going to make the pain even greater than. And so that degrees. I I agree now how it is punishment. I do believe it's. It's really powerful. far as our memories is going to be horrible. Not mine, but those of you that are not saved and in hell lift up your eyes. Being in torment, part of the torment is going to be the memories. Let's go to Texas and talk to. Is it Neil?

>> Jeff Chamblee: Yes sir.

>> Bert Harper: Go ahead, Neil.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Well, my question is me and my wife were talking about this the other day. we like to eat like pork, spare ribs and catfish and in the Old Testament those were two things that were not supposed to eat. So what makes it okay now to eat?

>> Bert Harper: Alex, let me say something happened to Peter, didn't it?

>> Alex McFarland: About I was just thinking about.

>> Bert Harper: Go ahead, take it away. We got answer as quick as you can. We got other calls to Go ahead, Dan.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, the dietary laws of the Old Testament, were for the Israelites, and they were to. You know, the law really showed us how desperately we needed a savior because none of us could completely fulfill the law. But once it was finished and when Jesus was on the cross and the curtain was torn, that. And that, by the way, that's in Matthew 27:51, 54, that shows that all of the law and all of the minutia of the dietary law, the hygienic, the religious rituals, it was all fulfilled. Now, Peter, in the Book of Acts, you know, Peter had this vision of a big picnic basket full of all kind of food, pork and everything. And Peter said, you know, listen, I've not ever eaten anything unclean. And Jesus says, that which I've called clean don't call unclean. Here's my point. Because it was all fulfilled in Jesus. We are under grace. And Paul would later say all things. And here's. Here are the two conditions. Receive with thanksgiving, but, experienced in moderation. And I love catfish and spare ribs and barbecue pork, too. but we've got to show restraint. But, dietary wise, we're free in Christ, aren't we, Burt?

>> Bert Harper: We really are. I wrote down the word and you've got on it amount. The amount of it we eat. And, he does say, do all things in decency and order well balanced. That's talking about our diet as well. And, Neil, thank you for that call. Appreciate you. Let's go to Louisiana. Jerry. Thank you for calling.

Stephen Bird says Job is the oldest book of the Bible

>> Jeff Chamblee: Hey, brother Bird, how you doing this afternoon?

>> Bert Harper: Doing great today. Go ahead, man.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Okay. I was studying the book of Job, and several common commentators that I read were talking about. I've heard it said that Joe was the oldest book of the Bible. And I'm thinking, how in the world could it be older than Genesis? You know, Genesis being the beginning, it kind of threw me off.

>> Bert Harper: Okay, here's what I said. It was written. It's the oldest one that we have written. Now, Genesis goes back further than, Job, but Moses wrote it after Job was written, and so Job is the oldest. It doesn't cover the oldest time frame, Alex, but far as what we can tell and what the observation, it is the oldest book written, but not the one that covers the earliest times. Right?

>> Alex McFarland: That's true. And, you know, it's, Job was a man in the land of us, and I was. It's funny, I spent the weekend in Job commentaries studying, and some wonder if he might have been, you know, a, Contemporary of some of the. Like, maybe even a contemporary of. Of Abraham or something like that.

>> Bert Harper: When you read it and see what it is and how they number the, it seems to me that's the case, brother.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. and so this would have been about 2000 BC, and, you know, he was making sacrifices for his children. and so here's the thing. There was the knowledge of God and the responsibility to get right with God, wasn't there?

>> Bert Harper: There really was. Jerry. We hope that gets your answer. Appreciate you listening and calling. Let's go to Alabama. Stephen, thank you for calling.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Hey, thank you, brothers. I have a response for a lady who was a caller that y' all had on Friday. Bless her heart. She had a child that had passed away in a car accident. And I just wanted to respond to her and anyone else, who has a child that has passed away. my wife and our oldest son passed away six years ago in a car accident. And thankfully, just like you say, it's important, today is the day of salvation, because in that very moment, if he hadn't have already taken care of that, there's only one other place that he would be today other than heaven. And I just want to tell that woman that she was, hurt. And I think all people do who have a child that's been passed away, you start wonder, is there something in my life that I've done wrong? Is there sin in my life? And I just won't let her and everyone else know that the devil is looking for a crack in your life to steal your joy and your love. And so don't let that happen. And so I love her and I love everyone else. And thank you. Thank you for what you do, Stephen.

>> Bert Harper: Thank you for calling. Alex. the reality of Jesus Christ being real and what you said earlier, and I want you to. I'll say this, and you take us out. What you said earlier, whoever said it, what you, know in the daylight hours, and what you know will serve you well in the darkest hours. Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: He's real, isn't he?

>> Alex McFarland: He is real. yes. Spurgeon said that. That. Don't. Don't doubt in the nighttime what God has shown you in the daylight. That's why we hide God's word in our heart and lean in and grow in Jesus every day. We're going to pick it up again tomorrow, good Lord willing. In the meantime, hey, tell somebody about afr, but most of all, tell everybody about Jesus. Keep us in prayer and let's see, we'll reconvene tomorrow with more of exploring the word.

>> Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.