Transcript

American Family Radio takes your Bible questions live on American Family Radio

>> Bert Harper: The Bible. It's the word of God.

>> Alex McFarland: Sharper than any two edged sword.

>> Bert Harper: This sacred book is living and active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness. Stay with American Family Radio for the next hour as we study God's word and take your Bible questions.

Bert Harper discusses the relationship between church and Israel on today's podcast

Welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, one of the interesting questions and a very important question to ponder about the big panoramic story of salvation through the centuries is the relationship between the church and Israel. The church, the body of believers, and then Israel, the ethnic Jews, but also the nation of Israel and, Romans. Chapter 11 is one of the chapters that really goes into this in depth. And we'll talk about this on today's edition of Exploring the Word. Very honored that you're tuned in and listening. Also doubly honored to be with my friend Bert Harper. And Bert, I love the word of God, I love the book of Romans, but I love the clarity and the depth with which the apostle Paul deals with these questions. The church, Israel, the promises and covenants of God, and where it's all leading. And so we'll talk about that.

Alex Rest: Paul makes the case that God is not through with Israel

>> Bert Harper: Yes, chapter 11. So unique in so many ways. And overall, looking at it, it helps you. He uses some examples because in this he says, I say, then has God cast away his people? In other words, what's he done with Israel? Or, is he through with them now that the church has come on board? People call that replacement theology. But he gives some examples here. I want to do this overall, you. And then I think it would be good for us to see as we kind of divide it up. He gives himself as the first example. Hey, God saved me. God's not through with the Jewish people. And then he goes to Elijah, when Elijah thought he was the only one. And God told him, man, I've got more than you know, that still are serving me. M and we're going to talk about how many that is later on. And then he goes, hey, the Gentiles, listen, I'm using you to reach the Jewish people later on. I'm going to work with them and you at the same time. And then one of the most amazing one I think is in verse 17 when he talks about the roots and the branches, if the roots are good, the possibility the branches is still living. And so when you go over this, Alex, I just love this chapter, the way you said it, the way Paul lays it out, he is making the case for us that God is not through with Israel, the Jewish people as a nation, and As a group of people.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, and yeah, I love the way it's, in the old King James, I say, then hath God cast away his people. And Paul, well, in English it says God forbid. In the Greek it's literally may it never be. And what I'd like to do first, let's give kind of a broad overview of the entire chapter and then we'll go back and do a deep dive on several parts. And I want to do our best to get this in. But Bert, let me say this. You agree, or disagree, Just as the covenant promises of God to Israel, he was going to make a great nation out of Abraham and Abraham's seed. And that certainly has happened. And he would give, everywhere Abraham's foot would walk that land by not only historical precedent, by divine promise, the land of Israel would belong to the Jewish nation. And then through Abraham would come the Messiah, Jesus. And certainly the covenant promises of Abraham have all been yea and Amen. And then also. And you read Zechariah in the Old Testament, but one day the Jewish people will occupy their land in a state of belief. Okay, but chapter 10 closed out. All day long I stretch forth my hands to a disobedient and gainsaying or contrary people. Now, here's my question to you, brother Burt. Just as Israel's backsliddenness and disobedience did not nullify the covenant promises of God, I think that even though a born again Christian that is in the salvation covenant can backslide and disobey, just as Paul is arguing for the, shall we say, eternal security of the covenant with Israel, I think we could make a case for the eternal security of the born again believer.

>> Bert Harper: I believe you're right on that, Alex. And when you see this, you know, God said he's going to later on say, you know, I've, he hasn't destroyed them, but he has set them aside as the instrument he uses to bring forth the gospel to the nations. Okay, he's. But he still has them. It doesn't mean that he's through with them completely. But I would say, just as you read this, like he's not going to do away with the Jewish people, I would say that is true that it helps us to see God's faithfulness to his people, whether they're Jew or gentile, if they've come to him by faith. Let me read verse six and I think it sets it up for the rest of it. Alex, why he's doing the Jews and the Gentiles. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. Rest of it. But if it is of works and is no longer grace, otherwise work is no longer work, he really cuts it into it that this salvation that we have is by grace, and it is his, the elect, his, what he does with it. And he is choosing to say to the Jewish people, listen, I'm not through with you. And he's also saying to the Gentiles, I'm not through with the Jewish people as well. Right now, the church is made up of Gentiles and Jews, but as a group of people, there's going to be the land of Israel occupied by the Jews in belief. And I think chapter 11 lays that out well.

>> Alex McFarland: And let me say this. There are some things in handling God's Word that it's important to keep distinct. The. The church is distinct from Israel. but also there are the covenant promises to the Jewish people nationally, but there's also the personal responsibility of every human before God individually. I mean, and listen, you will never hear two people that love the Jewish people and the nation of Israel more than Bert and I. We're unapologetically pro Israel. But at the same time, I want to say this. just being born an ethnic Jew is not salvation. Every person has the individual responsibility to open their heart to Christ and be born again. So in advocating for the covenant promises to the seed of Abraham, we're not saying universalism. People go to heaven merely because they were born Jewish, Jew or Gentile. We all must turn to Christ and be saved. Now, that being the case, let me say this, that, I've got friends, Bert, that are in ministry, and they love the Lord, but for one reason or another, for one school of thought or another, they assume that the covenant promises to the nation of Israel were nullified somehow, on the crucifixion of Christ. to that I disagree. listen, Gentile and Jew put Christ on the cross. Yes, it was Israel and it was Rome, but it was for the sins of the world. And yes, as Isaiah 53 said, that Jesus was despised, a man of sorrows, rejected of men. But still, as Paul says here, and this is really important, the church has not, quote, unquote, replaced Israel, have they?

>> Bert Harper: They have not.

Alex Hamilton: God's not through the Jewish people, he says

Now, let's go through this verse one. You've already read it, but he says after he said, God forbid or certainly not, may it never be, for I also am an Israelite, he uses his example that God's not through the Jewish people. I'm the Jew. He makes that qualification seed of Abraham, the tribe of Benjamin. I've got my lineage down. And then he turns to Elijah and, and Elijah thought he was the only one that God had discarded the, the Jewish people. And God told him, he said, no, I've got 7,000 that hadn't bowed the knee to Baal. And and then at verse five, he, he intervenes this, he says at the present time, even though at the present time there's a remnant according to the election of grace, even in this time of the Gentiles, Alex. That there's a remnant of the Jews that are believing. But he's building up. He hadn't discarded them then, he hasn't discarded them now. And so it is then he says, according to the election of what grace it is, you're saved by grace through faith. And you were talking about, you know, just cause they're Jew doesn't mean they're saved. Hey, the only way to be saved all the way from Abraham all the way through, I could always really go, back to Adam. The only way to be saved is by faith and trust in the Lord. That has not changed the law. Keeping the law. He's made that clear in verse 10. Keeping the law. listen, there's no way. And then in verse six, listen, it is by grace and not by works.

>> Alex McFarland: Hey Bert, I got to tell you this. And folks, do, me a favor. Go to afr.net and listen to yesterday's, edition of the Hamilton Corner. it was my privilege to guest host the Hamilton Corner last night on AFR and I interviewed Dr. Michael Rydelnik. He is a professor of Jewish studies at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago for 30 plus years. Brilliant, brilliant scholar. A born again messianic Jew. And Bert, guess what he told me? He said in the late 1960s when there was the emergence of Jews for Jesus, who we had on the show very early in the life of exploring the Word. We had on this program Moishe Rosen, the founder of Jews for Jesus and Chosen People ministries and things like that, Dr. Michael Rydelnik said last night on the Hamilton Corner, which I would urge you to listen to again. And we talked a lot about issues similar to this. But he said, Alex, in the late 60s, he said it was almost possible for any born again Jewish person to know every other born again Jewish person in the world because it was somewhere between 200 and 1,000 people. And he said now you could not personally know all the born Again, Jewish people in New York City. And folks, this is thrilling. To God be the glory that the Israelites are coming to know their Messiah. Yeshua. it's Jesus. And that isn't that thrilling?

>> Bert Harper: Birth it is. And so that remnant that is talked about in verse five has grown. He said, we still have a remnant here, but it has grown from 60s. Hallelujah. What a statement. Alex, real quickly, in the last two minutes when we go through that in verse 60, he says, what then? Don't you love how Paul just throws in a question? I love it how he does.

>> Alex McFarland: What is our takeaway from all this?

>> Bert Harper: Yeah, Israel has not obtained what it seeks because it was seeking salvation through works. It's not possible, but the elect have obtained it and the rest were hardened. Those that come by faith, they are elected. The others, their heart is hardened. And then he goes on. God has given them a spirit of stupor, eyes that they should not see and ears they should not hear. To this day. Again, from Isaiah, David says, let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a recompense to them. Let their eyes be darkened that they may not see and bow down their back always. Now again, not throwing them away, not destroying them. But he is saying, Alex, there's not as many. doesn't mean just because there's a few, just because it's a remnant doesn't mean that the whole group is discarded. And that's what his argument here, he did. He was one, Elijah was one. And he said, God has a remnant now. So his argument here is saying God's still working with Jewish people and he's got a plan for them, not just now, but for a future. It's a great hope that these Jews that are becoming believers and followers of. Of Yeshua. Alex. Hallelujah. What a savior.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Amen. Well, this is Exploring the Word. We're in Romans chapter 11. Fascinating, significant, very, very important content as all of the word of God is. We're going to come back. We'll continue in Romans chapter 11, plus your calls and Bible questions on the American Family Radio Network. Exploring the Word. Stay tuned.

>> Bert Harper: Will you take a moment and celebrate life with me?

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Paul talks about God using the Gentiles in verses 33, 34

Well Alex, I know we're trying to go through the whole thing but real quickly. Sometimes reading the last ah, before you read everything, building up to it is a blessing. So I want to read verses 33, 34, 35 and 36. So if we do get cut short on the time frame we got this in. Listen to what Paul sums up about God using the Gentiles. And they better be careful because they can be broken off as well. And then the Jews, it's going to be grafted back in. Listen to this. In verse 33, oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and knowledge of God. How unsearchable are his judgments in his ways past finding out. For who has known the mind of the Lord, oh, who has become his counselor? Or who has first given to him, and it shall be repaid to him. Now listen to the verse 36. For of him, Jesus for of him and through him and to him are all things to whom be glory forever. Amen. Alex, verse 36, I just of him, through him to him what a savior. Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: Paul quotes Isaiah so much and these last verses are quotes, from Isaiah, interestingly, a little bit of Job too. It is, yes, I've been doing a lot of study on that. But so again in summary, salvation is by grace, not works. and the promises of God are unconditional just as soil, seed and Savior, that threefold part of the covenant with Abraham is still in effect even though many didn't believe. And you know, Paul even references Elijah who interceded against Israel. you know there is such a thing as an imprecatory prayer and that's to pray God's judgment on somebody that is an enemy of God. And Paul, references there in verse three, how Elijah had prayed against Israel. But he goes on, he says, look, God foreknew his people and he is keeping, I want to tell you, God keeps his promises really because of his own holy righteous nature. The promises of God are not conditional on our behavior. He goes on 11 and 12 to talk about, this opportunity. That was a real revelation to pious Jews that gentiles, though the wild, shoot the wild olive branch. But gentiles could be grafted in to the true vine, which is the family of God.

>> Bert Harper: Alex, isn't that amazing? Real quickly you brought it up. Okay. Most of the time, you take a wild stump tree and you graft in the fruit trees to it so it can produce good fruit. But here, right, the opposite. He said, here you have the roots, which is the patriarchs, and then you have the, basis of it, the Jewish faith. And he breaks off those good branches because supposedly because they weren't producing fruit, and he grafts in these wild shoots.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, here's. Here's an illustration. This is not a great illustration, but, Angie's birthday is in February, and it used to be in February that that was when Ringling Brothers Circus would come to town. And two or three times over the last 30 years, you know, we'd go to the circus. Angie wanted to go to the circus. I'll never forget. This is probably about 10 years ago, but we went to. To the circus. And we're walking in the parking lot, and a guy comes up and he goes, hey, I got two tickets. You want two free tickets? He said, I had tickets. And the people these are for, they never showed up. two free tickets into Ringling Brothers Circus if you want it. And I was like, for real? Well, gee, thanks. And sure enough, we got two free tickets. But here's the thing. He said, the person I was going to give these to just never showed up. You can have them in a way. Let me read this. Verse 12. Now, if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the gentiles, how much more their fullness, in other words. and again, this is not anti Semitism. It's just a fact that, the majority of those at the time of Christ, not all. I mean, there was Nicodemus, there were plenty of Jews who followed Messiah. But Paul is saying, look, the free tickets. The recipients just said, no, thanks. So, the salvation message was taken to the Gentiles.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Yes, but as many received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God.

>> Bert Harper: Hallelujah. And so you find this. he says, I'm an apostle of the Gentiles. I magnify my ministry. If by means, verse 14, I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. In other words, this should let them know, listen, God can use who God will use.

It should provoke each church to do what God wants them to do

Alex, you and I have talked about this. God has permitted you and me to be the host here of exploring the Word, going through the Bible, true teaching and, and training, and then questions and answers. We know there's other people could do as good or better than we, but God has permitted us to be here. And when I say this, I say, you know, God, it should provoke. It's like churches. They should not compete. They, okay, they got a bus ministry. We got to have a bus ministry. They got a family life center. We need a family life center. No, it should not. But it should compel each church to look at what God wants them to do. When they see a church ministering and growing in the Lord and doing the gospel work, the mission work, those churches that are observing them, they say, you know, it's not that you're competing, but it should compel them to say, oh, we need to do what God wants us to do. Seek him, ask him his direction, and do what God's plan is for them. I think that's a good illustration of these. The Jews, her jealousy. God used the Gentiles. He's not. He's not having. He's not up hard times having to use the Gentiles. The Jews could see that and say, man, we could get on board as well. Is that a comparison of what he's saying here?

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. I think that's a good comparison.

Alex: Paul's preaching to the Gentiles the salvation of the world

but even though the Gentiles got grafted in, there's really a warning here in 13 and following. And I've got another little illustration I want to share in a moment, but let me read on. Paul, says, for I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office. He said, you know, remember back in, verse one, Paul kind of gave his Jewish bona fides. You know, I'm an Israelite, but I'm proud to be taking the gospel to the Gentiles. He says in, verse 13, if by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are of my flesh, and might save some of them, for if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be but life from the dead? This is so powerful. You know, Paul's being obedient. He met the risen Jesus on the road to Damascus. Now he's preaching to the Gentiles the salvation of the world. And just as an aside, as the Gentiles enjoy the covenant promises that really weren't even originally to them, Paul says, I'm hoping it'll make some of the Jewish people jealous.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. I see it.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. And, you know, let me say this. You know, that's the thing about salvation. It is by grace. I've known people that were in church for generations and generations, and then somebody, you know, gets rescued out of the gutter and they're saved. Just as saved as somebody that comes from a long, long line Christian family. It's not how long has your family sat in the pew. It's not how many plaques, have your name on it to commemorate a donation or something. Even though I believe in giving. But it's the grace of God, Bert. It's the mercy of God. Any of us are saved and alive and bound for heaven and not in hell. I mean, that's the grace of God, isn't it?

>> Bert Harper: It is. And I quote Bill Stafford. He's gone to be the Lord. Great, great evangelist. Great guy, became friends, and he said, do you not realize everything above hell is grace? And that's the whole idea, Alex. It's grace that we're alive today and not bound for hell. It is the grace of God. Now, verse 16 is, I think you have to think here a little bit. For if the first fruit is holy, the lump also holy. And if the root is holy, so are the branches.

>> Alex McFarland: Ah.

>> Bert Harper: And if some of the branches were broken off and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, with them, become a partaker of the root in the fatness of the olive tree. Now, again, what is the roots? It is the patriarchs. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. Those folks, they're the patriarchs. They're the ones that Abraham believed God. That is the root of Judaism. And so Alex, this is. He's. He started by faith. He wanted them to continue by faith. But they, as a group, got off track. Now, they were still believers all through the period of time, from Abraham all the way up to Paul's day. Because when Jesus was taken to the temple, there was two people there, Anna and Simeon and Alex. They were waiting for Messiah, and they recognized him. So they were faith all the way. But here it says those branches were broken off. And God, not wanting faith to die, he grafted in what the wild olive tree and the branches produced, and that's the Gentiles, those good branches that were Jews that stayed on there and those Branches that were grafted in the Gentiles, they still come from what the same root Am I Amen. that's what I understand him to be saying.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, and you know, in a way this really presupposes an answer to some of the questions people would ask. Are Gentile believers every bit as saved as Jewish believers? And the answer is yes, because look, in verse 16, Paul says, if the root be holy, so are the branches. Isn't that wonderful? And if some of the branches be broken off and you being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them and with them, partakers of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches.

Paul says Jews should not rejoice over Jews that are fallen away

Now let's talk about the word, grafted in for just a minute. I've got one of the lexicons here and it says to puncture and graft a living shoot into another living tree. Bert, did you ever see. I'm really showing my age here. This was covered in Reader's Digest and covered in, you know, I think Life magazine and a lot of coverage. There was a man out in California, and I'm sure he's long since passed away, but he took all kind of trees and grafted them together and he made lovely weavings and designs and even a tree, like a seat, a wingback chair out of trees. This guy had made a garden. And as little trees grew, he wove them into these beautiful shapes, archways, statues. Did you ever see that?

>> Bert Harper: I remember hearing about that. I think my mom may have gotten Reader's Digest that that was written up in, because I remember, I'm sure.

>> Alex McFarland: It'S probably online and there's a beautiful thing of. He had made chairs like a four legged chair, but they were trees growing together and what he had done. And I often wondered if the guy was a Christian because he talked about engrafting shoots and they grow together and then the bark covers it and it's part of the tree. Well, Paul is kind of saying this and he says, look, in verse 18, don't boast against the branches. Gentiles should not rejoice over Jews that are fallen away. Jews should not be lording, it over the Gentiles that they're not fully Christian. Here's the thing. Saved is saved. And then really in verses 20 and following, for any Gentiles that sort of get the body hit and, and look, even within Christendom there has been anti Semitism, sadly. And he says, look for if God spared not the natural branches. Take he, lest he also spare not you.

>> Bert Harper: That's it. God's not hard up, is he? God is not hard up. He doesn't run a bargain basement business. It is still salvation by grace through faith he does not cut corners with. When it comes to knowing Jesus Christ. I want to read verse 22 and we got to hurry. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God on those who fail. Severity, but toward you goodness if you continue in his goodness, otherwise you will also be cut off. That's the warning. Listen, God is just and he is loving you. Don't try to separate those. That's who he is. And if you're trying to do that, you're going up the wrong ladder. Listen you his justice. But real quickly, Alex, notice what it says here in verse, 25. For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion. That hardening in part was happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentile has come in. Okay, this time of the gentiles coming to an end and the Jewish nation is still around and so all Israel will be saved. It's not talking about all the Jewish, but there's going to be those Jews that are alive when, when the Gentiles has come to an end. The deliverer will come out of Zion and he will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. Now listen to verse 27. This is it. For this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins. This is God. He's given these evidence. He says I'm still a Jew. And, and then he talks about Elijah, then he talks about the Gentiles and the patriarchs. But the greatest evidence that God is still working with the Jewish nation is God himself when he does that. This is my covenant with them, Alex. Hallelujah. That's who God is.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, verses 32 and 33 before the break. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief that he might have mercy upon them all. Oh, the depth of the riches, both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God. How unsearchable are his judgments and his ways past finding out. Well, we're going to come back and take your calls and questions. Call in now. We have lines open. 888-589-8840.

AFA is video streaming that goes beyond just entertainment

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>> Bert Harper: Stream, let me tell you about it. It's video streaming that goes beyond just entertainment. Yeah, there are shorts and feature Films for all ages, but they're all backed by scriptural themes.

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>> Alex McFarland: You'Ll unlock much more.

Alex and Bert welcome back to Exploring the Word

Check it out today@stream.afa.net welcome back to Exploring the Word. Alex and Bert. Here you're listening to the Anointing Family Radio Network. We've got, calls coming in. If you've got a Bible question, we'd love to hear from you. And we'll do our best to give you an answer to your Bible question.

>> Bert Harper: Our line is open. Alex, by the way.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. And the number, here's the number. 888-558-98840. Triple 858-98840. Hey, before we pick, up the phones and call in because you'll get through. And this is one of those rare days we've got a couple of callers in the queue, but you'll get through. Hey, I want to thank everybody for praying for us. we were out in Montana this week and I really want to thank Brent Austin, Jeff McIntosh and our engineering staff helping me. I was at a place where the, the electronics were a little bit challenging and yet y' all bore with me. And we did some real good shows. Bert. We had, ah, that I know of at least two dozen teenagers that pray to accept Christ. And it was great. And we talked with many young people about a lot of things that they're going through and you know, more than 100 kids committing to build their life on Jesus to live for the Lord. And Bert, we also, obviously, number one thing we talk about is the gospel and a biblical worldview. But we challenge these youth about being a steward of their life and becoming somebody, building a family. And I preach to them about, hey, the second greatest gift God will ever give you, second only to salvation, is your family.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: And not all these young people come from a good family background, but they're committed. And you know, Bert, it's encouraging to me when you've got, you know, 17, 18 year olds, regardless of how they came up, but they want to get married and build a family that goes the distance.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. And we need to pray for them. And that's what you want to do. What can you do? man, reach the next generation for Christ. And that is part of discipleship. Alex. Building a family. That's Part of the discipleship process.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. So, I just want to thank everybody for praying, and we've got a big summer, a lot going on, and, My website is alexmcfarland.com and you can find a lot of things there. Well, we're going to go to, the questions. And, again, that number is 888-589-8840. But right now, the beautiful state of Kansas. Kansas. Rebecca, thanks for calling. Welcome. Thank you.

>> Bert Harper: I really enjoy your Bible study.

Bert says when we suffer as Christians, it's an opportunity for salvation

I have a question on Colossians, chapter 1, verse 24.

>> Alex McFarland: Could you explain what that verse means?

>> Bert Harper: Okay, let me read it, Alex. Okay. I now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ for the sake of his body, which is the church. Now, again, what you always want to do, Rebecca. You need to read the whole book of Colossians. You always read what's before and notice what he talks about. If indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast. That's the whole verse. And then what he says afterwards. But, Alex, what about this rejoicing in his sufferings?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, you know, that's a very mature Christian perspective, isn't it? And let me just say this. and I want to read. I believe it's Colossians 2, where it says, do all things as unto Christ and not unto man. here's the thing. That we're saved by Christ's work on the flesh, Christ's work on the cross. We're not saved by the works of the flesh. But here he says, fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ or lacking. Now you say, well, wait a minute. Christ's death on the cross. What was lacking there? Nothing. But I will tell you what we do as a disciple, what we suffer. You remember, it says that I may know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings. See, when we suffer unjustly or even are persecuted, or some are even martyred, it's not that that gets us saved. But I do think that, Bert, when we suffer as a Christian, it's a little opportunity to feel like what Jesus felt. You know, salvation is by Christ's work. But as we are disciplined, as we are faithful, as we, yes, suffer for the sake of the Gospel, Christ suffered for us. Any suffering we do is minuscule in comparison.

>> Bert Harper: It really is. Now, Christ did. It was a complete work for us, our salvation. But for his building his church. Notice the last phrase. It says, for the sake of his body, which is the church. Paul and the apostles, he left them here to do what? To do that which was what? Lacking. And on Paul's missionary journeys, what would he do, Alex? He would do that. He would go into the synagogue, he'd preach, some of them would come out, he'd establish a church. And then what would he do? He would establish elders in each one of those places so they could continue doing the work of Christ. And so Christ's work for salvation is complete for his building his church. The foundation has been set, but we continue to build on it. And Paul was suffering because of that. He really was. And so, yes, I, think that's what it's referring to.

>> Alex McFarland: Go to Joseph in Arkansas. Joseph, welcome to the program.

>> Bert Harper: Hey, guys. you guys are the best. I listen to you almost every day.

>> Alex McFarland: Thank you.

My question is about tithing. I think you should support your local church

>> Bert Harper: My question is about tithing. So I know what the word says that we need to do our first fruits, 10% to the Lord, which, you know, starts with our local church, but whenever we sell something big or make a, you know, get a big check, is 10% of that supposed to go straight to our local church? Or is it like, do we, you know, do we do gifts to other organizations out of that 10% or is that, you know, after that 10% goes to our church? Good question. Yes, we got you, Joe. It's a good question. I want to give an example here, Alex, and you take it away. I've pastored several churches, and in one particular church that I'm very mindful of, there was quite a wealthy family in that church. And if his total tithe went into that church, it really made it kind of off center. It really would have given m more. And so I was thankful that he did not give the 10%, although it would have made the budget a lot bigger. He was able, he and his family were able to share other ministries with that 10% because it would have been imbalanced completely. So there is some leeway on that 10%, I think. Go ahead, Alex. You may have a different thought on that.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. And Bert, have you ever. I'm sure you have heard the phrase storehouse tithing that, you know, comes from Malachi 3 about. And a lot of times people will say the storehouse is your local church where you're fed. And in general, I believe in tithes and offerings. I will say this, that Angie and I sometimes, the, ah, church we've been a member of for 20 years, you know, they're doing fine. They're not hurting for anything. Everything they need is budgeted for. And I don't always give my tithe to South Elm Street Baptist Church. Most of the time I do, but sometimes I give to other ministries that I know are worthy, godly ministries. AFA is a good ministry. Samaritan's Purse and Billy Graham. And I'm just. Let me say, when Paul said every man should give as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly, for God loves a cheerful giver. You remember that verse?

>> Bert Harper: I do, yes.

>> Alex McFarland: I think it's wise to prayerfully. I mean, look where the need is.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

>> Alex McFarland: And, I mean, there's big ministries, then there's individuals, and, you know, there's a whole lot of places to support God's great work. And my default position is your local church. But you're right, sometimes they don't need it like other missionaries and people need it.

>> Bert Harper: So, Joseph, I think that freedom is there. I think you need to support your local church. I think it should be a priority. Okay, let me just set that priority. But then after that, I think there's freedom in that. But you need to look at the ministries. Make sure it's gospel centered, missional in its purpose, and biblical in its model.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Well said.

Alex: I'm curious about the difference between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant

Let's go to Mississippi. Mojo. Is it Mojo in Mississippi? Howdy.

>> Bert Harper: Hello. Go right ahead. Yes, I'm curious about, the difference between the Old Covenant, Old Covenant and the New Covenant. I, have conflicting information and, I need to have that clarified as to Jesus coming fulfilled the Old Covenant and he declared it is finished. Okay, Alex, go ahead, man.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, they're really kind of like five covenants in Scripture. there's the Noahic Covenant, the Abrahamic Covenant, and the Old Covenant is really often listed as what they call the Mosaic Covenant. And then there is the Davidic Covenant and the New Covenant or the Messianic Covenant. Broadly speaking, these are the five covenants. And let me just very briefly tell you what, okay. The Noahic Covenant. God's not going to destroy the world by flood again. This would be the foundational stage for the human race to live and populate. The Abrahamic Covenant is really about the nation of Israel. The Mosaic Covenant, the Jews and the human race have moral boundaries, but keeping morals. And the Ten Commandments is not what saves us. In a way. Exodus 20. The Ten Commandments are a lot like Galatians. It simply shows us how much we need a savior. The Davidic Covenant, God's Messiah would sit on the throne of David, come from the house of David and then the new covenant. And that's where and that's often called the Messianic covenant. when John 19:30, Jesus said it is finished. Basically what we're saying is if you put your faith in Jesus and the work he did on the cross, you have fulfilled the, the salvation. But also the Mosaic covenant. You've got a new heart and forgive my brevity there. But the new covenant is that we have put our faith in the Messiah and thereby are made right with God.

>> Bert Harper: The Mosaic covenant gets the most press. Ok? The law given. But yes, the promises. Part of these promises. Notice there's promises with responsibility, each one of those. And in the new covenant Jesus came and fulfilled what all the responsibilities, Alex. So that we. He could be that high priest, Melchizedek. He could be the king of kings, of the line of David. He fulfills all of them. That's the new covenant. It's only in Christ.

>> Alex McFarland: Diana in Kansas, thank you for holding and welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Bert Harper: Thank you.

Alex says Satan is limited in his powers and tempts us

You feel like friends and my question is a little bit hard to explain, but in the thought life that we have, as we struggle with anxiety or fear or shame, it was brought to my attention that Satan, he doesn't know all. So he can't be the giver of those thoughts. Is that, is that true? Like obviously, God is omniscient, omnipotent. Satan is limited in his powers. But when we experience humanity, is it the flesh or is there some kind of penetrable darkness from Satan and his demons that, you know, keep us up at night thinking things we shouldn't think. Thank you, Diana, great question. Let me just share with you. First of all, Satan is a limited foe. He is not equal. He's not co. Equal. He is not the half brother of, of. Of Jesus. No. He is a created being, an angel. And he has limits. And he has his demons. And Alex, he will take what we give him. You know, anytime, as an unbeliever, as a believer, you give him a crack, he'll try to pry it further open.

>> Alex McFarland: One of he really will. And I want to be very clear. Satan is not omnipotent, omniscient. He doesn't know everything. Satan cannot read our mind. And I don't think the demons or nor Satan can put thoughts in our head. But I will say this. Satan is an observer. He's the tempter. It's just like this. Bert. whenever I Play checkers with somebody. I like to try to think. I know what they're going to do if I do this on the checkerboard. I know they're going to do that. And in a way, I think Satan tries to tempt us. He's a keen observer. And so, you know, we cleave to Christ. We're secure in Christ. No, the devil. He's powerful, he's dangerous. But we're victors in Christ, and Satan most certainly is limited.

>> Bert Harper: Let me give you this, Diana. First, guard your heart. And then, Philippians 4. 8. Think on these things. So if you read, Philippians 4. 8 and all those things that he said for us to think on, if you find out, you'll find everyone. I'm centered in who Jesus Christ is, and that is the key to that thought pattern. So guard your heart. Watch you let in through the power of God, and then think on these things.

Call in with a Bible question. All questions, all the hour

Thank you for your call.

>> Alex McFarland: Let's go to Ron in Ohio. Ron, quickly, please, because we're almost out of time, I'm sorry to say, but you're on, brother.

>> Bert Harper: Okay. I was telling the screener that I'm outside. I don't have my Bible with me. But, in Exodus, I think it's around seventh or eighth chapter, when Moses goes to, escape Egypt, and he rescues the daughters, from the shepherds. And the father says, I'll give you Sephora as your wife. His name starts with an R, but later they call him Jethro. Hey, we're going to spit that question, Ron. Thank you, man. Take it away, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: I, remember that we had that question a couple years ago. You remember that?

>> Bert Harper: Yes.

>> Alex McFarland: And they are one and the same. And the R word, I forget. But Jethro and the guy had two names.

>> Bert Harper: He did. Hey, it's like Simon Peter. I mean, a lot of the biblical names, like Nathaniel and Bartholomew, most folks think they're the same guy. Far as the apostles, Alec, So it's.

>> Alex McFarland: That's right, Jethro. And it wasn't Reuben. What was it?

>> Bert Harper: Raphael. Yeah, I can't remember either. Raphael. Something like that. Rule. That's it. Rule. Thank you.

>> Alex McFarland: Thank you, Brent Austin. you're welcome. And we'll talk about this more tomorrow. Hey, what a great day. Tomorrow now is Fire away Friday. All questions, all the hour. Tell somebody. Tune in and we'd love to hear from you. Call in with a Bible question. But in the meantime, tell somebody about afa. Most of all, tell everybody about Jesus.

>> Bert Harper: The views and opinions expressed in this.

>> Alex McFarland: Broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of.

>> Bert Harper: The American Family association or American Family Radio.